Heads Up Play

[memtigerfan]

I am guessing that someone has already done a great thread on heads up play somewhere on this site, but I can't seem to find it. Perhaps someone here can provide a link?

I find that I am doing very well in single table SNG's in terms of getting down to the top 3 or 4, and often even heads up. I've chosen to mostly play these for now until I feel I have really mastered them as they give me a better opportunity to at least cash in 3rd place and get my money back plus a little change. I am finding heads up play to be a little daunting, mainly against aggressive players when I seem to be catching nothing but crap hands. I played in one SNG last night where I got heads up and won by being much more aggressive and successfully stealing the blinds into a big chip lead. That said there were times where I pushed or made a big bet that I was REALLY glad my opponent didn't call or raise. Perhaps this is just the way it is with heads up play, but I would be very interested in hearing the more experienced players' advice on HU play.

Thanks!

[dyehard]

Originally Posted by memtigerfan

I am guessing that someone has already done a great thread on heads up play somewhere on this site, but I can't seem to find it. Perhaps someone here can provide a link?

I find that I am doing very well in single table SNG's in terms of getting down to the top 3 or 4, and often even heads up. I've chosen to mostly play these for now until I feel I have really mastered them as they give me a better opportunity to at least cash in 3rd place and get my money back plus a little change. I am finding heads up play to be a little daunting, mainly against aggressive players when I seem to be catching nothing but crap hands. I played in one SNG last night where I got heads up and won by being much more aggressive and successfully stealing the blinds into a big chip lead. That said there were times where I pushed or made a big bet that I was REALLY glad my opponent didn't call or raise. Perhaps this is just the way it is with heads up play, but I would be very interested in hearing the more experienced players' advice on HU play.

Thanks!

Lossen up. Play aggressive. 3 bet more if you feel your opponent is raising with a wide range (which he probably is if he sees that you are folding alot).

[Cambo71]

Jamie are you playing turbo or regular 9 man sngs. I think this is important. If you want to learn how to play well heads up I think the regular 9 mans will help your end game more and you will get playing flops better. To win consistantly in the turbos you must know win to push more often and be more aggressive. You dont have as much leeway in heads and you have to get it in with a weaker hand.

You should have some type of strategy when playing heads up that PLAYS TO YOU STRENGTHS or weakness. If you are a worse heads up player than your opponent and he will aggress you to death then you want to play bigger pots.
A really good heads up player will keep his opponent guessing and be able to adjust and counteract his opponents moves. For example if I am not raising alot and playing small pots and I 3bet my opponent it is tough for him to call me, this could be a reraise on the flop as well. Knowing how my opponent perceives how I am playing as well as what they are doing is tremendously important.

I like to play small pots heads up and try steal most of them postflop (very effective against weak opponents, good players dont let me do this) and then adjust to how my opponent is playing. If someone is playing me and they only put money in the pot when they caught a piece of it they almost have no chance of beating me unless they play a big pot. They would be better off pushing with 23offsuit than letting me grind them down to nothing. Also getting it in preflop your overall average edge should be higher if you get it in bad.

My brother likes to min raise in postion most of the time for two reasons.
First to let his opponent make an incorrect fold.
Second to put more in the pot when he is in postion.(if you dont know this position is huge, this can not be underestimated Jamie)

I dont like my brothers strategy, I would rather have a mix of limping min raisign to 3 or 4xing. Althought if your opponents fold often to the minraise that can make balancing your raise strategy less important because you are risking the minimum to steal the blinds.

I play a lot of 45 man sngs and a large part of good players edge is winning heads up. If you dont win at least half of your heads up matches I think it will be very difficult to have much of an edge on the game.

So Jamie what stakes do you play? and is it turbo or regular. I would play both, because to be good at both you need different skill sets which are important for 45 or 90 man sngs or larger mtts. Both of these can give you a good foundation playing larger tourneys.

[rryu87]

Originally Posted by memtigerfan

I am guessing that someone has already done a great thread on heads up play somewhere on this site, but I can't seem to find it. Perhaps someone here can provide a link?

I find that I am doing very well in single table SNG's in terms of getting down to the top 3 or 4, and often even heads up. I've chosen to mostly play these for now until I feel I have really mastered them as they give me a better opportunity to at least cash in 3rd place and get my money back plus a little change. I am finding heads up play to be a little daunting, mainly against aggressive players when I seem to be catching nothing but crap hands. I played in one SNG last night where I got heads up and won by being much more aggressive and successfully stealing the blinds into a big chip lead. That said there were times where I pushed or made a big bet that I was REALLY glad my opponent didn't call or raise. Perhaps this is just the way it is with heads up play, but I would be very interested in hearing the more experienced players' advice on HU play.

Thanks!

lol whenever I push chips in the middle, its like screaming dont calll plzzzzz!
click raise before the cards are even dealt on the button, and play like a nit when the button is not infront of you.
turbo sng, most times when u get hu, you guys will most likely be playing with less than 20bb effective each, so there won't be much postflop play as you guys will already be committed by turn. being a good coinflipper helps i guess...

[memtigerfan]

Originally Posted by Cambo71

Jamie are you playing turbo or regular 9 man sngs.

I have been playing some of both, but I find I prefer the regular 9 man sngs. The blinds going up so much faster just seems to make it more of a luck factor in terms of catching a bigger hand early in the SNG.

Originally Posted by Cambo71

Knowing how my opponent perceives how I am playing as well as what they are doing is tremendously important.

I definitely understand the value of this, but I wonder whether or not in a lot of these low stakes SNG's the opponents are even paying attention to your image.

Originally Posted by Cambo71

I like to play small pots heads up and try steal most of them postflop (very effective against weak opponents, good players dont let me do this) and then adjust to how my opponent is playing. If someone is playing me and they only put money in the pot when they caught a piece of it they almost have no chance of beating me unless they play a big pot. They would be better off pushing with 23offsuit than letting me grind them down to nothing. Also getting it in preflop your overall average edge should be higher if you get it in bad.

My brother likes to min raise in postion most of the time for two reasons.
First to let his opponent make an incorrect fold.
Second to put more in the pot when he is in postion.(if you dont know this position is huge, this can not be underestimated Jamie)

I dont like my brothers strategy, I would rather have a mix of limping min raisign to 3 or 4xing. Althought if your opponents fold often to the minraise that can make balancing your raise strategy less important because you are risking the minimum to steal the blinds.

Do you limp a lot from the small blind heads up? I know you have to really broaden your range of starting hands heads up, so I would be curious to know how MUCH you broaden your range, in general terms. (i.e. - do you try to limp in with smaller pairs or suited connectors or weaker Aces?)

Originally Posted by Cambo71

So Jamie what stakes do you play? and is it turbo or regular. I would play both, because to be good at both you need different skill sets which are important for 45 or 90 man sngs or larger mtts. Both of these can give you a good foundation playing larger tourneys.

Mostly lower stakes ($5 and under) - I have also tried a few of the 18 or 27 man SNG's. Seems pretty easy to make it to the final table in these, and it gives you a little more bang for your buck if you win one at the lower stakes. What are your thoughts on those 18 or 27 mans?

Thanks so much for the helpful info!

[memtigerfan]

Originally Posted by rryu87

lol whenever I push chips in the middle, its like screaming dont calll plzzzzz!

lol...I know what you mean. It's so easy to get outdrawn, even with a big hand.

So, position, as usual, is one of the more important factors. Thanks for the advice.

[Cambo71]

Originally Posted by memtigerfan

I have been playing some of both, but I find I prefer the regular 9 man sngs. The blinds going up so much faster just seems to make it more of a luck factor in terms of catching a bigger hand early in the SNG.


I definitely understand the value of this, but I wonder whether or not in a lot of these low stakes SNG's the opponents are even paying attention to your image.



Do you limp a lot from the small blind heads up? I know you have to really broaden your range of starting hands heads up, so I would be curious to know how MUCH you broaden your range, in general terms. (i.e. - do you try to limp in with smaller pairs or suited connectors or weaker Aces?)

I play unconventionally but it works great (for me) against bad players. I like to limp mostly from either blind and make a continuation bet on the flop about 80%. All you have to do to counteract this strategy is to raise me preflop, but if I go into the flop unraise my opponent will often not fight for it as much. If my opponents dont cooperate with my plan then I adjust to how my opponent plays. I mix it up is the best abstract way I can describe it. I have a good sense if I am ahead or behind so this works for me. I do not advocate this as the best strategy for heads up. Lets look at my records at the buy ins to see how the quality of player effects record heads up in the 45s

$10 33-13
$24 37-22
$69 17-16 As you can see the bigger the buy in and better the player the less effective my strategy becomes. At the $69 I might have a better record if I abandoned that plan.

Mostly lower stakes ($5 and under) - I have also tried a few of the 18 or 27 man SNG's. Seems pretty easy to make it to the final table in these, and it gives you a little more bang for your buck if you win one at the lower stakes. What are your thoughts on those 18 or 27 mans?

The people in the tourney allows for higher roi but also higher variance. The problem with the 27 mans is no one plays them with frequency at higher buyins. I really like the 27 mans and the structure and payouts better than the 18s. I personally would play 27s.

I will tell you what I play on Tilt and Stars.

ON Tilt I play most 45mans and 90 mans from $10 to $75 (I dont play the $52 90s, I want to get better at the 90s before I start playing this all the time, plus late at night they dont go anyways). I play 45s for profit and the 90s to get better at mtt and practice short stack aggressions.

ON Stars I play most $10 to $15 turbos a mix of 9, 18, 45 and 180 sngs
I also play $10 27 mans but these are not turbo but I really enjoy these tourneys. $20 and $30 27mans do happen on stars too (might have to wait an hour or so but they will happen.) I am building my bankroll on stars.
Thanks so much for the helpful info!

sorry i put my response all in your quote.