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Thread: to hero or not to hero

  1. #1
    foldimo's Avatar
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    to hero or not to hero

    sup boys. this is from a 365 circuit event in indiana, which alone might make this a fold. (maybe raise flop? def possible now that i think about it) villain in hand is 60 yr old guy i had a cig with yesterday coincidentally, i know he likes me as far as vs a random mtt situation. ok sooo blinds are 200/ 700/1400
    i have 50k ish, playing well table is annoyed with me bc i play too many hands zzz. anyway so villain had played back at me a couple times without showdowns, im assuming he probably had it in most of those spots but who the hell knows.
    89hh in mp3, i make it 3k to go...60s guy button calls, sb calls (random low 40s guy). (pot 12k)
    flop is Ac Kh 2h. sb leads 5k, i call, button calls (pot 22k)
    turn 4h...sb checks i bet 15k, button (villain old guy) semi tanks then jams 60k (pot 97k+), i?

    im getting a f sick price, button is obviously on a value hand, i look like a flush, but i am playing very aggro pre im not sure how that translates into play on later streets. he doesnt have a set or AK (unless he played it real weird) , i think A4 can make sense, AhJx AhQx Ah/Tx, i dont think he jams the nuts but maybe, QJhh QThh also possible...if i fold, i still have like 20bb and can outmaneuver ppl, if i call and i win im chip god and in an awesome spot to make the super deep run... what other things should i be thinking about?

  2. #2
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    How many players remaing? If we're close to the bubble I'm never folding this hand. Once I get to 30bb's or less I'm looking to move the chips around. I ship the flop, and give medium Ah's a chance to fold. If you take it down on the flop you increase your stack 34% I think? That's a nice take down when you only have 30-35bb's. If a set calls you, you win a huge pot ;-)

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    this was day 1b , we are about 10 busts away from day 2...dont think thats altering anyones play too much

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    If you don't think he would jam the nuts that often i think it's a call. plus i would think at least some of the time, if not most, he's going to raise big combo draws and nut draw with top pair on the flop(depending on read). a4, AhXx, 22 ak a2 (I'd account for at least a few combos of these; people do weird stuff; as in slow play flop and then not adjust on later streets and just randomly get it in) 6h5h 7h6h. the only dudes i lay this down to is the guys that just wait for the nuts and then auto ship. you put yourself in such a great spot when you win this pot, with the bubble coming up you can destroy it. fairness in conversation; I'm a calling station that probably doesn't adjust the greatest to live play.
    Kwer18 on tilt/stars

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    while discussing a hand in which he held bottom pair

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    I think one thing to consider, is that against most draws your a 4/1 fav.

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    I'm sure you have some kind of read on him at this point but I think this is a pretty good example where if old guy doesn't look at his cards before his flop call or before he shoves, I would assume it's a suited hand that he doesn't have to recheck and he's got you beat. If he doesn't look on flop call but does before he shoves, I think Ah4x or AhXx is likeley. I think he would've raised any other big hands (AK, A2, 22) on the flop with a draw heavy board. I also think he would raise the flop w/AhJh or AhTh. He knows you are playing alot of hands and if he's getting frustrated with you, it wouldn't surprise me if he shoved Ax4x here either. Old guys are the hardest to read imo. Anyway, if he didn't recheck his cards at all I would have a hard time calling. I don't use this read as often with a solid young player.

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    Why would villain ship anything but a combo hand with Ah? I don't see anything else specifically since there is another player to act. Unless they are so emotionally involved with you that they forget about sb. I see this often at the local clubs when I am crushing the table. My read is he has the ace of hearts. If they have a big flush, they wouldn't ship in position, also try to get sb to come Into the pot. Clear call IMO.

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    You don't think villain would ship QhJh or QhTh?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shabazz Jenkins View Post
    You don't think villain would ship QhJh or QhTh?
    are we really going to fold by putting him on two combos though? plus i think he raises at least some of the time with those on the flop. i think he is actually more likely to have 7h6h and 6h5h (depending on how wide he is pre). jhth is obv a possibility as well though. if we think he probably wouldn't shove the nuts i think we have to call. even if we feel he shoves the nuts a portion of the time i think it's still a call.
    Last edited by KevinW; 10-04-2012 at 01:51 AM.
    Kwer18 on tilt/stars

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    while discussing a hand in which he held bottom pair

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    Quote Originally Posted by foldimo View Post
    sup boys. this is from a 365 circuit event in indiana, which alone might make this a fold. (maybe raise flop? def possible now that i think about it) villain in hand is 60 yr old guy i had a cig with yesterday coincidentally, i know he likes me as far as vs a random mtt situation. ok sooo blinds are 200/ 700/1400
    i have 50k ish, playing well table is annoyed with me bc i play too many hands zzz. anyway so villain had played back at me a couple times without showdowns, im assuming he probably had it in most of those spots but who the hell knows.
    89hh in mp3, i make it 3k to go...60s guy button calls, sb calls (random low 40s guy). (pot 12k)
    flop is Ac Kh 2h. sb leads 5k, i call, button calls (pot 22k)
    turn 4h...sb checks i bet 15k, button (villain old guy) semi tanks then jams 60k (pot 97k+), i?

    im getting a f sick price, button is obviously on a value hand, i look like a flush, but i am playing very aggro pre im not sure how that translates into play on later streets. he doesnt have a set or AK (unless he played it real weird) , i think A4 can make sense, AhJx AhQx Ah/Tx, i dont think he jams the nuts but maybe, QJhh QThh also possible...if i fold, i still have like 20bb and can outmaneuver ppl, if i call and i win im chip god and in an awesome spot to make the super deep run... what other things should i be thinking about?
    Random old guys don't ship it without an extremely strong/made hands.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldnutz69 View Post
    How many players remaing? If we're close to the bubble I'm never folding this hand. Once I get to 30bb's or less I'm looking to move the chips around. I ship the flop, and give medium Ah's a chance to fold. If you take it down on the flop you increase your stack 34% I think? That's a nice take down when you only have 30-35bb's. If a set calls you, you win a huge pot ;-)
    I don't understand the logic. If we are approaching the bubble, I become the aggressor. My opening and raising range widens. However, when facing an all in raise near the bubble, I have to give the villain some credit and play my hand as it is. Especially in this scenario where my stereotypical old man read says he is super strong. I am much more likely to call if villain is a strong young player.

    Shipping the flop looks so -ev. I don't think SB donks with air on this type of board. Even if he has a weak A or K, I dont think you have enough fold equity to justify a shove. To make matters worse, you have a player yet to act. 30 BB is not time to panic, especially if you are a good player.

    I ran Poker Stove assuming SB has a lot of weak aces, kings, and 22. Given this range, you are 36/64 underdog.
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