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Thread: A-Q big stack versus big stack

  1. #1
    Chipless Wonder's Avatar
    Chipless Wonder is offline Honorary Member
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    Thumbs down A-Q big stack versus big stack

    I'll preface this post by stating that I know I am an idiot.

    OK, with that little disclaimer out of the way, I want to bring up two different subjects with regard to this particular hand...

    Tonight was my third straight attempt at Full Tilt's $65K Guarantee, and probably the last night I'll be able to play it for a while, since my normal work schedule doesn't really allow me to stay up that late and still be alert.

    The first night I finished 51st and felt I made quite a few mistakes. The second night I felt lke I made fewer and smaller mistakes, and finished 11th. Tonight I was going to try my best to win it.

    So we're almost three hours in and I have a top ten chip stack. Everything seems to be going according to plan. There's only one player at my table who's giving me any trouble, and he's raising 21% of the hands. That's high, yes, but even higher when you consider that he seemed to only be raising when there were limpers, or if someone had raised, he would often re-raise. I should also mention that this opponent is the only one with enough chips to hurt me.

    Next thing you know it's his big blind and I have A-Q. I know I should raise, and I'm pretty sure that he'll re-raise. I pause for a minute and decide that if he raises me I am going to push all-in. So I raised, and he re-raised as expected. But he re-raised all-in for 55 big blinds! Here's the hand history:

    Full Tilt Poker Game #9843651585: $65,000 Guarantee (73620987), Table 41 - 150/300 Ante 25 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:29:26 ET - 2009/01/03
    Seat 1: tomteforever (12,595)
    Seat 2: bigolebeast (13,028)
    Seat 3: o LIMIT 45 o (11,054)
    Seat 4: Chipless Wonder (16,420)
    Seat 5: THE_GOLDMINE (8,814)
    Seat 6: wwheat (2,853)
    Seat 7: sillylife (7,561)
    Seat 8: mordi20 (16,610)
    Seat 9: jtinweimar (5,834)
    tomteforever antes 25
    bigolebeast antes 25
    o LIMIT 45 o antes 25
    Chipless Wonder antes 25
    THE_GOLDMINE antes 25
    wwheat antes 25
    sillylife antes 25
    mordi20 antes 25
    jtinweimar antes 25
    sillylife posts the small blind of 150
    mordi20 posts the big blind of 300
    The button is in seat #6
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Chipless Wonder [As Qc]
    jtinweimar folds
    tomteforever folds
    bigolebeast folds
    o LIMIT 45 o folds
    Chipless Wonder raises to 900
    THE_GOLDMINE folds
    wwheat has 15 seconds left to act
    wwheat folds
    sillylife folds
    mordi20 raises to 16,585, and is all in
    Chipless Wonder calls 15,495, and is all in
    mordi20 shows [4s 4h]
    Chipless Wonder shows [As Qc]
    Uncalled bet of 190 returned to mordi20
    *** FLOP *** [3d 9d 4d]
    *** TURN *** [3d 9d 4d] [Qd]
    *** RIVER *** [3d 9d 4d Qd] [6c]
    Chipless Wonder: nh & gg
    mordi20 shows three of a kind, Fours
    Chipless Wonder shows a pair of Queens
    mordi20 wins the pot (33,165) with three of a kind, Fours
    Chipless Wonder stands up
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot 33,165 | Rake 0
    Board: [3d 9d 4d Qd 6c]
    Seat 1: tomteforever folded before the Flop
    Seat 2: bigolebeast folded before the Flop
    Seat 3: o LIMIT 45 o folded before the Flop
    Seat 4: Chipless Wonder showed [As Qc] and lost with a pair of Queens
    Seat 5: THE_GOLDMINE folded before the Flop
    Seat 6: wwheat (button) folded before the Flop
    Seat 7: sillylife (small blind) folded before the Flop
    Seat 8: mordi20 (big blind) showed [4s 4h] and won (33,165) with three of a kind, Fours
    Seat 9: jtinweimar folded before the Flop

    Obviously I know I should have folded to his all-in re-raise. It screamed weakness to me, but calling was still a huge mistake. I'm past that. My question is more along these lines... This is an excellent player with a top ten stack. What in the world is he doing here, re-raising all-in for 55 BB with pocket fours? Can this strategy possibly work in the long-term?

    My second question is in regards to this guy's table image. I was playing well tonight, but it was his table image that actually made me make a mistake and call his all-in here. I based the decision purely on emotion. I wanted to bust him so bad for shoving with such weak cards. Now that I'm writing this out, I can't remember what my question was. So maybe just tell me that this has happened to you, and I'm 'normal'.
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  2. #2
    tincup's Avatar
    tincup is offline Dolphin

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    well for one, ul. but then again you know that already. I feel the call was correct on a gut move. Obv the math is wrong for the call, and we all know that, but sometimes you have to call and the math be damned.
    My question is what are you doing that gets you a friggin top ten stack almost every time? I mean I have no doubt you have more skill in this game than I as I primarily play PLO. But It seems that you happen to have more than your share of chips every time out! LOL this is good, don't get me wrong, I"m just jealous!
    Playing 72 from utg is like wiping before you poop........ It just doesn't make any sense

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  3. #3
    shortmat1444 is offline Shark

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    Its the right move. If you are going to play in MTT this year. its fine. you had 17k in chips that def doesn't provide you enoughto make any final tables. You need to win hands. AQ verse 44 is a fine hand especially with his image. you hit and A or Q what a stack you had. I see a lot of top name players making a lot worse calls then this for a lot more chips. Its a play to do if your looking to win the tourney.

  4. #4
    DefyOddz is offline Dolphin

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    A. your raise pre is too big and entices the higher variance (you could say lag) players to reshove steal. This players shove with 44 was something that i encountered quite often in higher buyin tourneys from strong hyper aggro players ($100+) buyin.
    B. i snap fold to this reshove. AQ isnt that hot of a hand, hes not making this move with KQ ever, AK sometimes, and any pocket pair has u beat.

    How the cards come out is irrelevant the percentages pre have you behind here almost all the time. Racing to win mtt's is fine but your so deep here it was not necessary.

    All of my analysis comes from being in this exact situation multiple times when deep in important tourneys against strong profitable players and i have since adjusted the way i open with aq to avoid these spots.

  5. #5
    Stack P. Shizzle is offline Plankton

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    DefyOddz said it very well here.

  6. #6
    Chipless Wonder's Avatar
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    Very good input guys.

    Obviously I know I should have folded to his all-in re-raise. It screamed weakness to me, but calling was still a huge mistake. I'm past that. My question is more along these lines... This is an excellent player with a top ten stack. What in the world is he doing here, re-raising all-in for 55 BB with pocket fours? Can this strategy possibly work in the long-term? My pre-flop raise could have just as easily been A-A, K-K, Q-Q, J-J, 10-10 or even A-K, and I wouldn't/shouldn't have folded those to someone who's been raising this much.
    Carbon Poker: ChiplessWonder

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  7. #7
    xbaddboy is offline Tuna

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    Shoving 55+ bbs with 4,4 is overplaying his hand. These guys risk to many chips to win a small amount of chips is crazy to say the least. He is shoving because he does not know how to play flops at all. High ball poker is horrible poker that was developed for players who don't know how to play against good players. Guys like Phil Helmuth are shut down against this style because he can't take a flop and outplay the donkey.

    I am letting go of AQ here and picking a better spot to battle this guy. I value my tournament life and let go of 900 chips. Since he high balls I will limp
    then reraise and trap all in with my big hand and get my money in good against him and he will double me up most of the time. Some players have to call with AQ here to even have a shot at cashing at all and you are not one of those players because you have got the skill to play through the game.(I have seen your sharkscope)

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