1/2NL handplay with AKo

[charlton49]

Last night I played a pretty wild cash game. Min buy $200, Max buy $500

Myself and a couple others bought for $300, a couple for more than $300, and a couple for the min. A quick bit of background on this game… massive overbets are the norm with top pair x kicker.

5th hand of the night, I’m sitting with ~$320. I believe we’re 9-handed at this point.


UTG (Villain 1) raises to $15, CO-2 (Villain 2) flat calls and I repop to $45 with

Folds around and both villains call.

Flop:

V1, a VERY loose and mostly aggressive player goes allin for about $120.
V2 asks for the countdown, and seems to hesitantly call. He has about $100 behind.

Hero…?

[D-Nut]

I know you're not asking about this part......and I wasn't in the game (so I dont know the players), but I think a re-raise to $45 just adds to the trouble of this hand. I can't imagine a scanario where you thin the field here with just a $30 reraise into an UTG raiser (and one that likes to play a lot of hands, as stated)....so then after the UTG calls (as expected), certainly the V2 player is going to call for odds unless he has some hand like AJ or A10, KQ, etc. (basically a hand that is only going to create more trouble if it hits)

To find out if I would call or not.....I'd have to know if UTG player has skillzz. If he does....it might be possible to get in his head to find out the motives for a move like this. If he is a donko.....you might have a hard time figuring out why in the world the clown would bet 3x the pot. I cant imagine a player with skills would open shove for 3x the pot into a hand where he raised UTG and then got repopped....and is now betting directly into 2 players with $45 invested on an ace high board. As far as the V2 player.....I guess I'd have to know what kind of player he is too.....is it possible he was hollywooding just calling with a set trying to get you to shove the rest in? Or is he really just a donko who called a preflop reraise with a hand like AQ or AJ, and doesnt know how to release?

I'm guessing this has a bad ending......it just smells bad.

I'm sure it is one of those hands where your poker instinct tells you that you probably shouldn't continue.....but you do it anyways, and as soon as the cards are flipped over, you think in your head , "I KNEW IT!" "DAMN I'M AN IDIOT!" At least I do that a few times a session......

[otbdave]

Dave's post cracks me up.

I am going to kinda agree with Dave by saying your action on this hand REALLY has to depend on your reads against V1 and V2 here. What kinds of hands are these guys willing to go all in or go broke with? How active is V2 preflop? Does V2 always call the loose raises from V1?

From your comment on the game " A quick bit of background on this game… massive overbets are the norm with top pair x kicker" this means that players in general are willing to dump a lot of money on fairly weak hands. However, our specific players are what matter here.

V1 raises preflop, calls your raise, and then launches his stack. I see him almost never beating you here. Generally in hyper agressive games such as yours, players will check their monster hands (2pair+). This guy does not sound like a great player, however, if he is a "controlled" maniac, he could have the goods here, it is just hard to see on this board. If it is only him, I snapcall him unless I have read him to be a better player than it sounds like here. (There are good hyper-aggressive players and bad hyper-aggressive players)

As for V2, I would REALLY like to know how many hands he is going to the flop with. He is obviously in position on your V2 here, who is raising a lot of hands. If I had to guess, I expect V2 was calling with a small pocker pair here trying to hit a set, then got dragged in to the pot when you make it $45. He hits a set, hesitantly calls, because why snap call with someone behind you on a no draw board?

However, if V2 is tight and V2 thinks V1 is a really terrible player than he might be calling with anything from 88 to QQ here. He expects V1 is just a loose cannon and as long as he didnt hit the A he is good.

In conclusion, you really have to be at this game and understand how the players are playing towards each other, specifically V1 and V2. With the only read you have provided of top pair any kicker is nuts here, well you are beating that hand so you must call. However, I have a feeling there is more to the story on these two specific players.

[otbdave]

Your image here matters a lot too, how many hands are you playing preflop, what do they think of you? It would be scary to launch in top pair not nut kicker against you if you have been playing very tight / aggressive, which is how you should be playing a game like this.

[wreaks]

Not knowing the players really, I'd say V1 has AK/AQ, V2 has AQ/AJ. Regardless, this flop is pretty much what you hope for with AK: rainbow, mostly disconnected flop with A/K high. I would shove if I were you.

[otbdave]

Derek is goin with the case ace eh? one of these V's is packin a set or middle pair and the other has a lessor ace. Thats my prediction.

[BguitarH]

Without getting too in depth here (since previous posters have already hit upon everything), I can't see myself ever making this fold against 2 random opponents unless they had BOTH proven to be complete nits. With the info you've given, I snap shove. To me, the only scenario where you're not ahead here is if V2 has 33 or 44. Given that you said he made a scared call, I rule that out. If V1 has you beat, you can still beat V2's scared call (to me this screams AQ) and hedge your losses. However, I think its far less likely that V1 ever has you beat, barring specifically A3 or A4. Overall, I think this is one of those spots where you have to go broke if you beaten, because folding in this specific situation would be -EV in the long run. If V2 does have the well played set, you tip your hat to him and kick yourself for not raising harder to push out the set miner.

[charlton49]

Great feedback, all. To answer some questions, as it was only the fifth hand of the night, and I'd never played with V2, I really had no strong read on him other than him talking about playing at New Albany and at the Gemini club. So, truly, this could have counted into a fold for me.

2 things, Dnut: 1) V1's move was actually less than a pot bet, as his allin was all of $120and 2) I thought the 3BB was well within range for my hand pf. I put V1 on a weaker A at best, and V2 on the same, or a possibly coming in at 7.5BB pf to make a move later in the action (which ended up being the standard pf raise). Anyway, on both pf calls, I thought there was a good chance that only one of them had an A, and the other a pp of some sort. I guess a 4-5BB would have been more effective at isolating here, but that's hindsight as I didn't realize/remember how loose the game actually was.

OTB, I agree with you here. It would have been much better if I'd known how many hands he played, what kind of cards he played, and if he was the kind of guy to play, "on a feeling." It probably would have changed my post flop decision... so what did I decide?

On V2's postflop call, I truly thought he was playing something like AQ or AJ, or even possibly, sharing my same hand-- but I was more inclined to rule that one out. A call just committed his chips anyway, and, as I'd mentioned before, I'd seen more than a few hands win in this game with TPWK... hell, I've folded 2pr a few times in this game thinking it was no good, only to see the winner turn over 2nd pair. So, maybe it was a case of me being stubborn... so in my head, all the chips were coming my way. And then, suddenly, it was as if Dnut was hanging out in my head, as I heard myself say, I'm an overplaying SOB!"

V1 turned over
V2 turned over

Turn and river were a 4 and a 5 accordingly... and I was dunzo on that hand.

In all reality, I think I did overplay my hand, and in a tourney, I'd probably make the laydown. I don't know if it was the enticement of it being a cash game that brought me in... but, yeah, I got run over by 45o for a $500 pot with a pf RR that made it x22.5BB... how many people can say that?

[otbdave]

You had outs against 45 and he played his hand terribly and caught the only flop that would pay him. Besides maybe A23... lol. Oh well, you kind of have to call there. Unlucky in my opinion.

[DaRup]

sadly you need to keep in the back of your mind, what would rob be playing, and what would you need to do to get me off that pot or what would you need to do to save some chips...In tourneys I dont play a lot of dumb hands but i am aggressive with what i have...in cash games everything is much more loose, so you would have to imagine what cards I would be representing. Just something to consider.