Best Online SNG's for ROI

[Chipless Wonder]

What SNG's does everyone have the best results with online?

I play on Full Tilt, and it seems like I do best with the single table (9-person) SNG's.

[Chipless Wonder]

Attainable ROI

It's difficult to determine exactly what the maximum obtainable ROI is at any given level. The reason for this is pretty simple to understand. Imagine you were the BEST $5 SNG player in the world. Your ROI is higher than any other $5 regular's. You would soon realize, though, that your hourly rate would actually go up if you played $10 SNGs with a slightly lower ROI. In short, most people play whatever stakes let them maximize their hourly rate. So there's no way we'll ever know what's really obtainable at any one level since typically the players that could get that magical number move up from that level.

Having said that, we can still speculate what a very good player at a given level could maintain over a significant sample size. We can find this out by observing good players and through tracking sites such as sharkscope. So without further ado, a very good player could probably expect to have the following ROIs:

$3.40s - 18%
$6s - 16%
$16s - 14%
$27s - 12%
$60s - 10%
$114s - 8%
$225s - 6%
$335s+ - 4%

A few notes should be made on these numbers. These are based on Stars turbos. If you play a non-turbo structure, generally your ROI might increase a few points (due to the slower structure), but at the expense of your hourly rate (again, due to the slower structure). These numbers are quite applicable to major sites besides Stars. Perhaps at a smaller site with a generally worse player pool, you might find you can get a couple of points higher ROI, but again, the games fill slower at smaller sites so this increase in ROI will come at the expense of hourly rate. These numbers are also based on 9-man SNGs. Typically players find that the competition is a slight bit softer in 18-man and likewise, in 6-man SNGs. And finally, it should be stated that ROIs above these figures are possible at each level. However again, if you are capable of maintaining these figures over a large number of games, it's safe to say you are a talented SNG player.

Source: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...n=0&page=0#roi

[Blue_O_Rock]

I tend to go for the 45 player SNG's. It seems like I get a higher return on investment in these type of tournaments for a particular level of buy-in than in the single table SNG's.

Here's my theory on why the larger SNG's are more profitable. The single table tournaments don't take long and are very convenient. It seems to me that because of this there are quite a few single table grinders/specialists that play these almost daily and are very good at them. On Full Tilt at least, its usually not too hard to get down to a tough core of about 4-5 players. But then these experienced players will stick around like super glue taking little jabs here and there. This will continue for what seems like a half hour where they are making very few errors and making it difficult to get to the money.

The larger tournaments either require a slightly larger bankroll or for a player to drop down a level. This is because about %13 of the players paid out instead of %33. So you won't cash as often, but the payouts will be larger when you do. I'm pretty sure I have seen both Chris Ferguson and Scott Cook say this... but, I recommend that a player that is serious about preserving and growing their bankroll over the course of the year only invest %3-%5 of their bankroll at a time in any one tournament or SNG.

Now here is why I think I have been getting a higher ROI on the larger SNG's... I believe that there are more average joe's (read dead money) that aren't really interested in 2x, 3x or 5x payouts of the single table SNG's. I think most loosing players are more interested in only playing occasionally online and would be more interested in playing a longer/larger tournament with a potential to pay out 15-16x their investment or more. The more fish in the tournament, the better the return in the long run. Granted, in the short run you will get some pretty ugly beats by players paying way too much to make draws, calling with dominated hands and hitting, etc. But overall a solid ABC tight agressive poker style should prevail.

So why not even larger (as in # of player) tournaments? If you have the time, go for it! Don't be afraid to play in low dollar tournaments starting out. It is better to start off low for awhile until you are sure that you can make money over time before going up in limits. I have received 20x-65x my buy-in on a few occasions on these larger tournaments. It just takes more time and patience, but I believe this is where the most dead money resides and largest potential ROI. As a good compromise between time/convenience/profitability I tend to go for the 45 player SNG's. Anyway, that's my thoughts. Either way, have fun.

[Chipless Wonder]

Very informative post there Mike! And judging by your ROI on SharkScope, it looks like you definitely practice what you preach. Very impressive!

Here's another forum thread with some good information on this topic:

Pocket Fives thread about STT ROI

[CW Buckeye]

I'm with Mike. I find that 45 person SNG's are where I make the most. My only problem is that I don't want to spend the time playing them. If I play online, I'm only looking for a 'quick fix'. Not a three hour game.

[peroxide_stings]

LOVE LOVE LOVE the 45 man sng's.....right now I'm grinding the $10, hopefully I'll be able to jump to the $24 ones soon though

[cdavi]

I have recently discovered the mass difference between the two. I'm sure those who play the 75's regularily notice the difference between the 26 and them, but the quality in the 11's are just bad. You really have to play unimaginative ABC poker and you'll win more than lose. It's amazing the calls all in you get at that level. Good level to learn how to play tight aggressive.

As for this post, I'd be interested to see what my best is. I used to kill the 5.50 90 man, but I played a ton of 9 handed SNGs for the longest...my guess my best ROI comes in the 26 45 mans though