Nasty Nasty Cooler

[ThrillCory90]

Crazyness. I'm just doubled the guy up with flush over flush about 30 hands ago and am currently up about 3 buyins. I'm excited because deep play is fun and I think I have a giant advantage over this guy deep stacked. Little did I know that I was gonna get coolered like a box of capri sun at a picnic!!!



Gross hand from both our points of view. He hits the dream flop, I hit my 3 outer on the turn, money goes in, he hits his 3 outer on the river. Largest pot I've ever lost.... so far

[ThePenguin22]

That is a HORRIBLE hand when you are deepstacked. I would be carefull, and to be honest would call it a night now. You play a pretty high varience stlye and are capable of getting a big chunk of your losses back but if that where me all I would be thinking of was that ace hitting. That is such a big pot to lose it has to affect you a little, just be careful you dont lose more. Such a sick hand deepstacked.

[cdavi]

Crazy, calling qj suited for a 4 bet oop, both slow played the flop, nuts on the turn when it goes in. Question though, can you let it go if he's aggro on the flop or the Jack doesn't come on the turn...I see myself losing a lot of money smooth calling qj suited for a 4 bet oop cuz I'm never folding qqx flop ever and I'm losing to aq every time. If they're good, kk and aa are folding so you shouldn't be able to rail him to make the implied odds worth it.........

[ThrillCory90]

Sorry I didn't give any explanation of my play. I wasn't expecting the handplay to get any discussion but discussion is fun and I am glad to explain my reasoning.

1) There tons and tons of flops that QJs is gonna allow me to be aggro on. It plays well postflop
2) the match was extremely aggro preflop. Extremely. I started 3betting about 20% my opponent was catching on at this point and for me to fold QJs would make 4bet bluffing way too profitable. Opponent is capable of and has 4bet bluffed. QJs has good equity against his range. Also, I like my odds of winning the hand if he has AQ or Ak.
3) Top pair in 4 bet pots is essentially the nuts so I'm extactic when i flop a Jack and a Queen.
4)Most of my value does not come from my preflop equity, but from my ability to outplay my opponent postflop. Up to this point I have completely been outplaying my opponent postflop in reraised pots. (I rarely 3bet QJs and this is the reason I 3bet QJs in this situation)Plays like this in reraised pots are the reason I stacked the guy 4 times in a row before he got a double up, and this time (especially being deep) is no exception, even OOP.
5)hearts are my favorite suit

both slow played the flop

I checked to the preflop 4better. It's a 4bet pot so I will have no problems getting the money in by the river as it will only take 2 bets to do it so I am not giving up any money there. He is cbetting most hands that I get value from by betting and from hands that may fold to my donkbet. At this point in the match, he would not give a check raise from me very much credit. My image is good, almost maniacle. I've been floating and checkraising a lot in raised pots. Checking the flop was not even close IMO.

His check was good because I've been playing so crazy in reraised pots this match and I probabally would fire out the turn with almost my entire range.

Question though, can you let it go if he's aggro on the flop or the Jack doesn't come on the turn

Silly question. I'm assuming it rhetorical. After the flop, me folding would be a misclick.

I see myself losing a lot of money smooth calling qj suited for a 4 bet oop cuz I'm never folding qqx flop ever and I'm losing to aq every time.

This is kinda a weak/tight reason to fold. Losing big pots to AQ and stuff when a q hits the board is just variance and I am not afraid of making high variance plays. This is deep HU so I expect to stack and get stacked a lot.

If they're good, kk and aa are folding so you shouldn't be able to rail him to make the implied odds worth it.........

Implied odds against AA has nothing to do with why I'm calling. But no, he is not laying down AA in a 4bet pot almost ever. Anybody who does, will be completely ran over. And folding it to me of all people is beyond horrible. Maybe he can find a fold on a JT9 monotone board or something that really smashes my flatting range but no, KK may even stack off if an ace hits. And saying my hand will be transparent when I hit big means that I don't bluff or value bet thinly enough (not even close to being the case).


You are right that in general calling a 4bet with QJs is bad. But once again, I am rarely 3betting it in the first place unless I have a really good reason to.

[Vestvik7]

U got the answer to every question/situation... Y you not taking a shot at Gus?

[ThrillCory90]

That is a HORRIBLE hand when you are deepstacked. I would be carefull, and to be honest would call it a night now. You play a pretty high varience stlye and are capable of getting a big chunk of your losses back but if that where me all I would be thinking of was that ace hitting. That is such a big pot to lose it has to affect you a little, just be careful you dont lose more. Such a sick hand deepstacked.

Thanks. I was on the phone with my friend at the time and I was immediately laughing afterwords. I'm on a big downswing right now so I'm probably gonna take a week or so off. I'll come back fresh and maybe take a shot at a 6max table with you

-----Added 26 Apr 2009 at 07:08:21-----

U got the answer to every question/situation... Y you not taking a shot at Gus?

Gus is my third favorite player behind Ivey and my boy Humberto.

I really enjoy poker and really enjoy thinking about it. Sometimes I enjoy talking about hands with my friends and on forums like this one more than playing them. (which is why my posts tend to ramble). For example, this thread:

http://www.badbeatspoker.net/forum/h...cash-game.html

Was a lot of fun, the reason I post here regularly, and I still haven't made my mind up about it.

I know you are a good player so I would really be happy if you gave your oppinions and reasoning on this hand too.

(by the way, in most situations, I do think that 3betting a hand as valueble as QJs in the first place is not optimal so I doubt any of us really disagree too much. I also don't think him 4betting AQs is very good in most situations since it makes it more and more easy to barrel him off of his hands in 3bet pots on ace high flops, and I there is a chance I will 5bet him with a decent sized range (and fold AJ))

-----Added 26 Apr 2009 at 07:15:50-----

I've actually ran pretty good so far and now I am 4 for 5 in thousandish dollar pots now so I can't complain lol.

[ThrillCory90]

Penguin is absolutely correct about tilt being there even if you don't think you are on it. I tend to laugh everytime I take a bad beat (I almost enjoy it), but even though I never get angry throw stuff, I never start cramming all in preflop like some of my opponents do, tilt still can happen even if it is barely noticeable.

I started playing poker seriously last february. I moved from freeroller to playing fr'er, to 6maxer, to playing mostly low stakes hu in within a few weeks. I always knew hu was very high variance, but it always seemed like when I was getting unlucky I broke even and when I got lucky I took peoples entire rolls. I exercise almost no bankroll management. I try to keep 20 buyins in my regular stake (prolly not enough for HU), and I play anyone I have marked as a fish for any reasonable amount of money anytime. I dont exactly have the lowest variance style of play either. Unless I am playing a higher stake game, I dont game select either meaning I do end up in variance wars against good regs frequently.Though this is the major reason I turned 0 dollars into a solid amount so fast, I really can't be doing that when the momentum is not going my way cuz it is possible and very reasonable to lose with the best of it an unbelievable amount of times in a row (I never thought being on the wrong end of set over set could happen so frequently at a 2 player table lol)

Time for a break. I really thought I wasn't on tilt, but the tilt doesnt show until you start autopiloting through very important situations. This is by far the worst downswing I've ever had. "donations" from some horrible PLO players and some good sessions 4tabling happy low variance full ring games, and actually running sickly good whenever I play the lowest stakes are the only things keeping my poker bankroll afloat right now.


Examples of me tilting

Tilt on this hand was just me turning what is essentially the nuts, and just autopiloting c/ring the turn without really thinking about my opponents range and really measuring out a good betsize. I'm up a buyin at the time by pulling off some big bluffs in 3bet pots and I was just thinking, "wow maybe my luck is about to turn around I hope I double up". Regardless of the result, I gave the oppponent very good odds to draw at a straight and a flush to stack me, and I shoulda c/called the river repping a Jx on the turn to try to induce a bluff from hearts on the river since no hands are calling the river that wouldn't bet it themselves if I checked to them.


And then this hand happened 2 hands after it. Even though I was destined to lose a big pot after the flop, and would have been hardpressed to find a fold, regardless I did not play the hand optimally at all. All I did was give him a chance to fold his AJ, AQ type hands. It would be unlikely that he would 3bet me with spades, so I shoulda just repped a spade draw by flatting the 3bet. Though I was not thinking about it at the time, I know that the fact that I have been outdrawn by hands with anywhere from 9 to 1 outs over and over again subconciously had something to do with my just overbet shipping the flop. Instead I shoulda flatted. Then maybe raise the turn after he bets it to protect his hand. Horrible horrible play by me.


I think the best plan is to take 2-3 weeks off and come back playing FR and maybe some donkaments to try to recover some losses and try to get back in stride.

[ThePenguin22]

Seems being dealt a lot of coolers certainly isnt helping you much. At the beggining of the year after putting in 18 consecutive profitable weeks I had a bad week. Very bad, I then went on to lose the following week? 18 weeks of winning then 2 losing weeks in a row. I had my first losing month in a year and it took me a lot of time to get things back on track. Even though I hadnt lost too much money it rocked my confidence and I started playing scared poker. eg just limping and calling with raising hands. I should have took a break but didnt, I finally played through it but it wasnt till I dropped my level for a month that I got back on track. If I where you I wouldnt resort to freerolls I would just limit yourself to a level you can crush. If you see a bad player playing hds up $200nl dont allow yourself to play him, stick to small stakes until you have your head right. The hardest thing in all of this is even after a good winning session you will look at your account and see it is still way off what it was, I have no idea how to block this thinking as I could not do it. Until you have all your money back it will be hard to play your top top A game.

[ThrillCory90]

I LOVE VARIANCE!!!!!

A month past my first crybaby "F^%#K this s^@* I'm never playing poker again" post which was a month of break even or losing days, everything all of sudden turned around and in 1 week I have more than erased my losses for the quarter.

I have won about 8 of the last 10 coinflips I've been in and I am having my greatest week ever. I had a 2200 day at Gemini on saturday. 1300 playing omaha and deepstacked hu on absolute on monday. Another 800 playing on absolute on tuesday. Lost 600 on thursday. And I'm up 1700 so far today playing HU and 6max on carbon. Every one of my good hands is holding up. I am running sickly good and I am playing much better too since I am not playing scared of high variance plays anymore.

It really does turn around.

[ThePenguin22]

Wow nice results, good to see you turned it around so quickly. I dont think theres any need to hang around those 6 max tables at Carbon though, not that much value in those games.