Where do we draw the line with PT/HEM

[siash69]

I know a lot of people dont agree with tracking software and we all know several poker clients have banned the use of it, but while the software is out there and people are using it we are slightly putting ourselves at a diadvantage if we don't use it ourselves and if our aim is to be a profitable player/ make a living more than a recreational player who plays purely for the enjoyment it has to be in our interests to gain whatever edge we can.

But I have noticed lately that a beast may have been created and it is soon to wake or be slayed.

There are a small number of people outside of the development team that have unfathomable talent, insight and programming knowledge that I think could make this sort of software a victim of its own success and I fear many more poker clients will start to take drastic measures.

The reason for my post is that I have been following closely over the last few months a talented indivdual who posts on the PT forum that is sooooo close to uploading a file in the Repository that will actually define hand ranges/allow us to see what hands have been played and the associated betting action.

(This is done and created when villains hands have been showndown and Im sure once a realistic sample has been collected this is going to be a huuuugggge advantage to players who utilise the stat).

Against a talented/thinking player who mixes his/her game up this stat would/could not be as effective as it would be against a standard ABC player which Im sure is a huge % of the poker players currently online, and its these types of players who could be at a serious disadvantage if PT users take advantage of this stat when it becomes available.

With the recent discord between OPR and FT with the reasoning that a lot of their players were at a disadvantage with the stats that were available freely and subsequently removed would purely pale into insignificance if this stat/function became avaiable.

For me I glady take any edge I can even with a slight dillution of the pureity of the game as it is now and if this stat became available hand on heart I would have to say I would use it as long as it was available freely in order just to level the playing field, but for me this could be a step too far and I am certain that when the online poker world in general finds out it wont be long before other sites take steps to prevent the exploitation of players who dont use such software.

I just wondered what other people thought.

[ThrillCory90]

hand ranges/allow us to see what hands have been played and the associated betting action.

This would be the most useless thing ever IMO. I wouldn't even use it.

[siash69]

Fair point William, could you share your thoughts on why? Im curious as to the reasoning behind your comment.

[otbdave]

Just some quick thoughts...

I think you would need an unreal huge sample size for this stat to mean anything (I am talking well over 10,000, and I do not have 10,000 hands on a single player)

The stat will only work for hands that go to showdown, and most hands do not go to showdown.

A reasonably thinking player can already accurately assign ranges using VPIP and PFR.

The only stat that could involve showdowns and possibly have any benefit in my opinion is river bluff &#37; for pots of various sizes. IE (<10BB RB%, 10-30BB RB%, 30-80BB RB%, 80BB+ etc) Combining this with river cbet (which is a 3 barrel stat) could offer insight on whether a player really is capable of a 3 barrel bluff, etc.

[otbdave]

Of course we would have to statistically define the difference between a bluff and vbet, lol

[sqrltyler]

i'm probably in the minority here, but i wish they'd just ban PT/HEM and all other tracking programs that are used in real time at the tables.
anyone who multitables regularly probably hates the idea of playing without PT/HEM, but why should we have advantages online that we don't have live?
obviously using these programs gives you an edge over people who don't use them, but it's kinda like steroids imo
take these programs away, and i believe the best players would have an even bigger edge.

[otbdave]

I am a supporter of the idea of poker with no tracking and no software.

[LAPPIN]

here here to the call for no software aids!

[siash69]

Maybe we should add a poll: For or Against software? But i dont know how to do it

[pegboy1]

Speaking for myself I can only say this. I consider myself one of those abc players. However, I do not play like a robot. From game to game my ranges vary to a degree. Wheather I am tilting, or weather I feel I am playing a great game there is always a slight variance to my own ranges. Sometimes I make donk moves, and sometimes I play perfectly. I think the abc players would be harder to track than the good players, and the good players would adjust. I really dont think this tool would be as good as you think.