Live cash: AKs, overs on 4-flush on flop

**wreaks** · 12-17-2008 01:06 PM

$1/$2 game at Windsor. I had been building a stack and playing pretty well. The villain in this hand had been calling pretty much all of my PF raises, and calling me down with marginal hands, sometimes winning.

2 limps ahead of me. I'm in MP with

, and raise to $20 (I have ~$600 behind). Villain calls (~$300 behind), LP calls, EP calls. Pot is ~$80. Flop is:

Check to me, I bet out $60. Villain calls, others fold. Pot is ~$200.

Before I move on, would you have played the flop differently?

**Zunga** · 12-17-2008 01:45 PM

I think you played that perfectly. My buddy sitting beside me here is a lot tighter/passive than i am, and he advocates a check, but i really dont think that disguises your hand as much if you hit. If you get your spade on the turn and all of the sudden are super agro, then the chances of the villain(s) calling your bet/raise goes down. With the raise, you are saying that you are throwing out a C-bet, so there really isn't much of a range you can be put on specifically.

I think the bet of 60 is nice, and will wait for you post of the next card.

**Idontplay6s** · 12-17-2008 03:20 PM

if MP and EP both have under 300, a CRAI could be just what the doctor ordered.

however if one of them is 400 deep, i like the bet.

**wreaks** · 12-18-2008 10:26 PM

I was hoping for a little more feedback, but...

The turn came, a

Before I say what I did, what would you do with that card, first to act? Remember, the pot is ~$200, villain has ~$200, I have ~$500.

**niner1984** · 12-19-2008 01:14 AM

as i see it i like your bet on the flop you have a lot of equalty in the hand and want to build a biiger pot ans stack off the villain

when you get called and the off suit queen comes i like ptting max pressure on here and shippin it in . As i see it even if you get called you should have 15 clean outs unless he has quuen jack . I think the villian has so many hands that he has to lay down on the turn becuase they are no longer good enough to continue

**JBabel** · 12-19-2008 08:22 AM

As George said you probably have 15 (and a for sure 12, spades and 10s) outs (and since you said villain has called with marginal holdings he might be calling with a worse A (though the Q might have hit it), let's assume the 15 outs, so you are about 2.5:1 underdog if called. If you are planning on calling an all in by the villian if he pushes (since you would be getting 3.5:1 on a call (700:200) you should take advantage of the fold equity by pushing (and also with only the 12 for sure outs you would be getting 3:1 odds and better than that pot odds). It would seem that all signs point to push.

Oh and I don't think you play the flop differently, with that board and your hand you want to get more money in the pot.
Jarrod

**DevilFish73** · 12-19-2008 08:30 AM

I agree with GW and Babel and I ship it.. Although I don't play much cash, I believe this situation is what a cash game is all about and I love the push here..

**PokerBroker** · 12-19-2008 10:16 AM

Shipping it is a borderline play... there are plenty of better situations where you can stack your opponents without having to catch a river card... shipping it here just tells your opponent you are on a draw and you are going to get called by a jack or a queen...

I say bet 60 again... it is highly unlikely that your opponent called your flop bet with a Q so he will have a hard time raising you holding a jack... you now have control of the betting and his only option to raise is to push... should you check he could easily push himself or lead out with a large bet that you cant call with your draws... he could easily fold to your $60 bet if he was calling with overs/underpair/weak jack/etc so it is as good as a push here without over committing to the pot... If he calls your second 60 on the turn you can reevaluate your push based on what comes on the river... he could be on a weak flush draw himself...

It doesn't seem to me that you took the time to consider what he could be holding and used that information to shape your betting.

**wreaks** · 12-19-2008 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by PokerBroker

Shipping it is a borderline play... there are plenty of better situations where you can stack your opponents without having to catch a river card... shipping it here just tells your opponent you are on a draw and you are going to get called by a jack or a queen...

I say bet 60 again... it is highly unlikely that your opponent called your flop bet with a Q so he will have a hard time raising you holding a jack... you now have control of the betting and his only option to raise is to push... should you check he could easily push himself or lead out with a large bet that you cant call with your draws... he could easily fold to your $60 bet if he was calling with overs/underpair/weak jack/etc so it is as good as a push here without over committing to the pot... If he calls your second 60 on the turn you can reevaluate your push based on what comes on the river... he could be on a weak flush draw himself...

It doesn't seem to me that you took the time to consider what he could be holding and used that information to shape your betting.

Ryan, I raised PF and made a continuation bet on a pretty good flop for my hand. That's all so far. After his call on the flop I put him on AJ-J9, or TT-77. I can't really put him on much of a range PF with just a call, given his previous play. So far, I've built the pot to be approximately the size of his remaining stack, which is a good place to be on the turn imo. Why do you think I didn't take the time to consider what he was holding? (Not accusing, just wondering where that came from.)

**PokerBroker** · 12-19-2008 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by wreaks

Ryan, I raised PF and made a continuation bet on a pretty good flop for my hand. That's all so far. After his call on the flop I put him on AJ-J9, or TT-77. I can't really put him on much of a range PF with just a call, given his previous play. So far, I've built the pot to be approximately the size of his remaining stack, which is a good place to be on the turn imo. Why do you think I didn't take the time to consider what he was holding? (Not accusing, just wondering where that came from.)

I think I may have merged your post with all the replies about pushing when I made that reasoning... probably not as much a criticism of your play to this point, rather of the push theory here...

IMO, you want to be pushing in cash when you are going to get called my a hand that is behind, not when you are going to get called by a hand that is ahead... there are plenty of opportunities in a cash game where you will be in this position... there is no reason to stack yourself on a draw when you are behind... wait for a better place