QQ vs nitty 3bettor, nothing invested

**cardsfan04** · 02-04-2009 10:44 PM

Typically, I always jam this, but Crisco is 13/9 ove 174 hands, so his range is pretty top-heavy IMO. I'm pretty sure he shoves JJ/AK, so isn't this almost always KK+?

Full Tilt Poker Game #10439310057: $69 + $6 Sit & Go (78907244), Table 1 - 80/160 - No Limit Hold'em - 21:35:05 ET - 2009/02/04
Seat 1: cardsfan04 (3,840)
Seat 2: yogano83 (2,365)
Seat 3: Hero ln Black (1,530)
Seat 4: boltsva (1,870)
Seat 5: Sibist (3,245)
Seat 6: boostedgti (1,740)
Seat 7: softpsycko (2,065)
Seat 8: KevinBlackwood (6,480)
Seat 9: Crisco18 (3,240)
yogano83 posts the small blind of 80
Hero ln Black posts the big blind of 160
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to cardsfan04 [Qd Qc]
boltsva folds
Sibist folds
cardsfan04: when only 2 things ive been dealt in this are AA and trash, obv
boostedgti raises to 320
softpsycko folds
KevinBlackwood folds
Crisco18 has 15 seconds left to act
Crisco18 raises to 800
cardsfan04 has 15 seconds left to act
cardsfan04 ??????

**Chipless Wonder** · 02-04-2009 10:58 PM

I can't imagine folding Q-Q for 20% of my chips, and you'll have position post-flop. So I'm pretty sure I'd call, see what the flop brings and try to gather more information based on his action.

**D-Nut** · 02-04-2009 11:07 PM

Can never fault anyone for shipping here....but more than likely if that is the read that you have gathered....you're right.

But IMO, I think you only have 2 options here....fold or shove. I really can't imagine any player worth a dime that is going to 3-bet PF and then follow up with a check....unless they are being trappy. I just think that calling the PF bet is a spewey spot, and not much upside for your hand.

Its an above the rim fold....but probably the right one....and only one that I make if I am in a very clear mind, and playing my absolute best.

**cane3791** · 02-05-2009 01:13 PM

Dave is right on here, Calling puts you in the same spot as shipping, no flop is coming that the 3bettor isn't putting you to the test on if you check around to him. The only way you can call here, is to stop and go with about 1/2 pot bet on the flop no matter what, but that will only work if the Nit has no ability to raise with AK and missing the flop. Otherwise when you get raised you did not loose your whole stack, or your bet will take the pot down. But this is a rare spot that this works, need to know for sure player will not raise with AK or JJ on a missed flop. Otherwise it is a shove fold. By the way I'm pretty sure folding is the right play here, but very hard to do!!!

**niner1984** · 02-05-2009 01:56 PM

since it is only 20 percent of my stack i do not hate a call. If a ace or king does not come i am most likely gone to go with hand

**D-Nut** · 02-05-2009 02:18 PM

GW....to me, and this is just my opinion, it's not about whether an ace or king comes on the flop....its about whether we're already beat. So what range are you putting the villian on in this hand given the info that the original poster gave?

**DevilFish73** · 02-05-2009 02:23 PM

I ship it.. Nuff said..

**Chipless Wonder** · 02-05-2009 02:46 PM

So what range are you putting the villian on in this hand given the info that the original poster gave?

We already know this raiser raises with 9% of his hands. Assuming he only raises the top 9% of all hands, then we're ahead of his range pre-flop 64:36. *

If we assume that his late position re-raising range is twice as tight (i.e. top 4.5% of all hands), then we're still a 57:43 favorite over him. *

I'm OK with pushing pre-flop, but I would prefer to call and see a flop. We both still have plenty of chips and I have position on my opponent.

* Source: PokerStove: Poker Software and Analysis