88 vs AK 45man FT

[rryu87]

guess the hot topic on pocket fives is my call with 88. Some interesting replies... (obv the other guy is frustrated out of his mind =D)
lets talk about this call!

Poker hand played on Full Tilt Poker with a pot size of $18,380 - Pokerhand.org

Seat 1: poncholoco ($10,705)
Seat 3: arturopoker ($8,650) Dealer
Seat 4: Golfaholic81484 ($15,475) Posts small blind $300
Seat 5: bakitako ($5,710) Posts big blind $600
Seat 6: finspik ($5,080)
Seat 7: dmckk ($4,110)
Seat 8: offshore805 ($9,030)
Seat 9: rryu87 ($8,740)

FOLD dmckk
FOLD offshore805
RAISE rryu87, to $1,600
RAISE poncholoco, to $10,705 and is ALL-IN
FOLD arturopoker
FOLD Golfaholic81484
FOLD bakitako
FOLD finspik
CALL rryu87, $7,140 and is ALL-IN
RETURN poncholoco, $1,965




i open pot for 1600 with 88
and the guy who is right next to me (poncholoco) shoves with AK
it gets folded around to me and I make the call.
obv I'm not planning on folding my way through the money ladder with a medium stack in final table. I'm playing for 1st as always.
Since I am a lucksack, I hit my quads to double up and took down the 1st place. The guy who lost has been following me around and berating me of my call as -ev -ev -ev -ev -ev -ev -ev -ev.

This guy swears this was a good call... - PocketFives

I really liked some interesting replies on this forum too.
Feel free to fire away.


You know what... to make it more interesting here is another scenario that happend recently. I wish I had the hand history saved... but I don't so I'll try my best to explain it.

I made it to final table of 33$ turbo MTT on full tilt, table dynamic was 2 bigstack with about 130k each sitting next to each other, and 6 medium stack with about 40k each. Some guy shoves UTG +1 with unkown range and I make the call with 3 ppl to go for my entire stack. I had 99 and the blinds were 2500/5000 with antes i believe....
Like I said, I am not folding 99 there, since it is very unlikey that my 99 is behind, and the prize structure of the MTT forces me to play for 1st instead of 3456. Unfortunately he turned over a4 suited and the board came
q q 10 6 10 to counterfeit my 99... so much for -ev call...huh

[DevilFish73]

I like both of your plays.. You obviously are not folding after opening for 1600 w/ 6400 behind and the blinds at 300/600. I make the same play. In that situation you figure someone will come over top with a wide range of hands w/ AK being one of the major ones.. Not sure why he is surprised you called and why he is upset to get called.. Ironically if his Ace would have flopped and you didn't hit a set or quads he doesn't say a word, other than to tell you "gg."

[cardsfan04]

I like both of your plays.. You obviously are not folding after opening for 1600 w/ 6400 behind and the blinds at 300/600. I make the same play. In that situation you figure someone will come over top with a wide range of hands w/ AK being one of the major ones.. Not sure why he is surprised you called and why he is upset to get called.. Ironically if his Ace would have flopped and you didn't hit a set or quads he doesn't say a word, other than to tell you "gg."

yeah, I pretty much agree with this.

I just open shove though typically. Although, you could argue that shoving is kinda like bluffing. But, if you raise to widen their range a little, you have to call.

[rryu87]

pretty much that 1600 preflop was an action inducer. when I was reading some responses on pocket fives... there were some comments about just open shipping the 88. Personally, I prefer to open the pot rather than shipping it, just because of the fact that I can disguise my hand strength, or even get someone to shove light from later positions just like cardsfan said. I also kind of thought that my stack was too big to push with 88 at that spot... (obv... this is the part of my game where I feel its cloudy) My thought process is that if I shove here, hands that are going to call me are better hand that I am drawing to 2 outs to , two premium overs, and at best scenario, lower pockets or one over. Where as if I open the pot, I have a chance to take the blinds with so much wider range, or possibly convice someone to re-raise me when I am actually holding a strong hand. Cardsfan can u tell me more about the reason why I should just shove on that spot please? Is it better to shove when I want a call preflop? I am open minded

[DevilFish73]

From his thread on Pocket 5's...lol This guy puts him in his place..

This guy swears this was a good call... - PocketFives

Re:This guy swears this was a good call...
In reply to
By Sdanby on 04-03-2009 4:43 PM Reply Quote

so you charge on here with the hand telling him that we would all agree with you. we disagree wth you and now you try telling us we are ALL wrong. and so much lol at you folding JJ if you were him, so your basically open bluffing JJ with a 14bb stack, you clearly understand this game way more than anyone here

-----Added 5 Apr 2009 at 11:19:03-----

BTW I understand what EJ is saying but I agree your raise is a virtual "all in." I guess the only down fall is some one flats and you see a flop that you don't like..

[cardsfan04]

From his thread on Pocket 5's...lol This guy puts him in his place..

This guy swears this was a good call... - PocketFives



-----Added 5 Apr 2009 at 11:19:03-----

BTW I understand what EJ is saying but I agree your raise is a virtual "all in." I guess the only down fall is some one flats and you see a flop that you don't like..

The fear of somebody flatting is why I prefer an allin, but if they flat, I jam 100% of flops. Even though sometimes when we are virtually allin, we give the illusion of FE to bad players. Remember >90% of players are losing players, so they don't always realize we're committed.

[pegboy1]

Not really thrilled about AK vs. 88 right now. My last hand of the 50/50 last night.

ull Tilt Poker Game #11515345970: The Fifty-Fifty (85373030), Table 47 - 1200/2400 Ante 300 - No Limit Hold'em - 2:05:21 ET - 2009/04/05
Seat 1: Cornelia Marie (46,075)
Seat 2: woohoo44 (35,894)
Seat 4: lamjones (81,884)
Seat 5: Montanaheart (70,496)
Seat 6: captain ov (46,201)
Seat 7: pegboy1 (28,730)
Seat 8: avgiq (77,388)
Seat 9: Philnaps (126,454)
Cornelia Marie antes 300
woohoo44 antes 300
lamjones antes 300
Montanaheart antes 300
captain ov antes 300
pegboy1 antes 300
avgiq antes 300
Philnaps antes 300
woohoo44 posts the small blind of 1,200
lamjones posts the big blind of 2,400
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to pegboy1 [Kh Ah]
Montanaheart folds
captain ov folds
pegboy1 raises to 28,430, and is all in
avgiq folds
Philnaps folds
Cornelia Marie folds
woohoo44 raises to 35,594, and is all in
lamjones folds
woohoo44 shows [8h 8s]
pegboy1 shows [Kh Ah]
Uncalled bet of 7,164 returned to woohoo44
*** FLOP *** [9s 5d 3c]
*** TURN *** [9s 5d 3c] [Ts]
*** RIVER *** [9s 5d 3c Ts] [4c]
woohoo44 shows a pair of Eights
pegboy1 shows Ace King high
woohoo44 wins the pot (61,660) with a pair of Eights
pegboy1 stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 61,660 | Rake 0
Board: [9s 5d 3c Ts 4c]
Seat 1: Cornelia Marie (button) folded before the Flop
Seat 2: woohoo44 (small blind) showed [8h 8s] and won (61,660) with a pair of Eights
Seat 4: lamjones (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 5: Montanaheart folded before the Flop
Seat 6: captain ov folded before the Flop
Seat 7: pegboy1 showed [Kh Ah] and lost with Ace King high
Seat 8: avgiq folded before the Flop
Seat 9: Philnaps folded before the Flop

[hennerz1]

I agree jamming is best here since we are calling a shove
It also prevents ppl from restealing with hnads like KT etc. when we would prefer to pick up the pot than flip. I also would not worry about being exploited at all.

-----Added 5 Apr 2009 at 01:23:21-----

The fear of somebody flatting is why I prefer an allin, but if they flat, I jam 100% of flops. Even though sometimes when we are virtually allin, we give the illusion of FE to bad players. Remember >90% of players are losing players, so they don't always realize we're committed.

With a hand like 88 do u not think we can bet fold several dry flops like Axx vs the avg 45 man villain. On many boards you can bring ur cbet size rite dwn to like a 1/3 pot and maintain the same level of FE against most villains. Also u can "balance" if u want my betting small strong 2 induce.

[cardsfan04]

I agree jamming is best here since we are calling a shove
It also prevents ppl from restealing with hnads like KT etc. when we would prefer to pick up the pot than flip. I also would not worry about being exploited at all.

-----Added 5 Apr 2009 at 01:23:21-----



With a hand like 88 do u not think we can bet fold several dry flops like Axx vs the avg 45 man villain. On many boards you can bring ur cbet size rite dwn to like a 1/3 pot and maintain the same level of FE against most villains. Also u can "balance" if u want my betting small strong 2 induce.

Im not a fan of that w/ an 11BB stack tbh. It's also pretty exploitable for the most part. If you do it w/ strong hands too, that makes it harder to exploit, but if I pick up on somebody doing this, I play back a lot.

[hennerz1]

I think its fine if you do it against the avg clueless field, im pretty concious to avoid being exploitable vs regs