88 Facing 4Bet?

**Asterix1982** · 07-31-2009 06:24 PM

line check: 10$ 45er.... early stage,

please check the line and post some comments!
what you guys do here?
call? shove? fold?

i have no information on villain... but i hate these minimum donkbets....

Full Tilt Poker Game #13732925811: $10 + $1 Sit & Go (101374742), Table 2 - 20/40 - No Limit Hold'em - 17:53:18 ET - 2009/07/31
Seat 1: dbruno488 (1,340)
Seat 2: kpitus (1,710)
Seat 3: nugget50 (1,425)
Seat 4: stlbuck (1,515)
Seat 5: Asterix1982 (1,455)
Seat 6: necessary (1,555)
Seat 7: Christian197 (3,530)
Seat 8: IceCreamKillah (970), is sitting out
dbruno488 posts the small blind of 20
kpitus posts the big blind of 40
The button is in seat #8
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Asterix1982 [8s 8h]
nugget50 folds
stlbuck folds
Asterix1982 raises to 120
necessary folds
Christian197 folds
IceCreamKillah folds
dbruno488 folds
kpitus calls 80
*** FLOP *** [3d 3h 6s]
kpitus bets 40
Asterix1982 raises to 240
kpitus raises to 980
Asterix1982 has 15 seconds left to act
Asterix1982 has requested TIME

thx for your comments!

edit: is 240 too high for a 3bet?

**DevilFish73** · 07-31-2009 06:38 PM

All to often I ship it here but without any solid information you are in limbo and there isn't a great answer... Is this a case where the guy can't fold his blind and hits an amazing flop, or someone that doesn't care about his $10 and will shove with anything, or an over played A6? Truthfully I don't know so I ship it and either double up early or get taught a lesson but add some great notes on a future opponent.. I think your $240 bet was fine but it almost requires you to stick it in in this type of situation.

**siash69** · 07-31-2009 08:09 PM

Hi Sebastian bit of a tough spot for you here!!

Its hard for me to put villain on a super strong hand here as with top premium hands you are more than likely going to be faced with a 3bet pre-flop unless hes played it tricky and just flat called you with one but at these levels I would rule that out until I had some specific player reads.

So what are we left with?

Overpairs: JJ-77?
Raggy Aces: A3, A6?

We cant rule out the overpairs, flopping three of a kind is more likely to check/call on a rainbow flop and try to get value on further streets or get them all in if the turn is a possible drawing/scare card for him. Although the minraise/re-raise is a bit wierd, but it has cropped up before where villain feigns weakness to induce a reraise then comes over the top.

So Im discounting A3 at this point.

So like Ben says it could be an overplayed A6 or indeed an overpair.

We then have to consider what range villain has put you on.

Its such an awkward spot, I have found myself in spots where I have called a 3bet with decent PP's and flopped an overpair to the board and got them in only to find myself crushed by a bigger PP, but given the preflop action here Im willing to take the risk here and call/shove then make some notes like Ben says on the particular play and outcome and chalk it down to experience if we are beaten by a bigger PP or outdrawn. If he outdraws you on the turn/river then you have still made the right call if you are beating him on the flop.

I dont think a fold is too bad either given its at such an early stage of the game.

**J4bberW0cky** · 07-31-2009 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by DevilFish73

All to often I ship it here but without any solid information you are in limbo and there isn't a great answer... Is this a case where the guy can't fold his blind and hits an amazing flop, or someone that doesn't care about his $10 and will shove with anything, or an over played A6? Truthfully I don't know so I ship it and either double up early or get taught a lesson but add some great notes on a future opponent.. I think your $240 bet was fine but it almost requires you to stick it in in this type of situation.

Perfect answer IMO.

**TYggShipIt** · 08-01-2009 12:12 AM

Talking bout my snowmen huh? Well all i play is 10+1's and i had 3 showdowns with 88 vs massive re-raise..

Two were AK's i won once they one once.. Third one was a massive QQ that quaded up and stomped my snowmen all the way down.

So now i would just fold to the massive re-raise.. your either flipping a coin, or way behind. It takes some sort of delusional donk to massive over the top with a lower pair. At best your a flip, atleast from my experience..

**TYggShipIt** · 08-01-2009 12:40 AM

While i was posting i got shoved on, so i called it.. very early on in the 10+1 45's..

God Mode ON

Dealer: Hand #13739991859
Dealer: Ty3DtRipLe has 15 seconds left to act
Dealer: KSBULLRIDER shows
Dealer: H3R34DALOOTTY shows
Dealer: KSBULLRIDER shows Ace King high
Dealer: H3R34DALOOTTY shows three of a kind, Eights
Dealer: H3R34DALOOTTY wins the pot (3,660) with three of a kind, Eights
H3R34DALOOTTY: ship

Didnt get the full hand.. i raised 150, he went AI.. i called laughing about it being ironic and floped an 8.

Thought i could get the whole hand word for word the action in the hand history?

**Asterix1982** · 08-01-2009 08:02 AM

wow, just WOW!

many thanks for your awesome replies guys! never got any comparable answers within 2 years poker-forum-experience! THX!

heres my decision on the hand above:

*** FLOP *** [3d 3h 6s]
kpitus bets 40
Asterix1982 raises to 240
kpitus raises to 980
Asterix1982 has 15 seconds left to act
Asterix1982 has requested TIME

Asterix1982 folds
Uncalled bet of 740 returned to kpitus
kpitus mucks
kpitus wins the pot (740)

**ThePenguin22** · 08-01-2009 09:03 AM

If its any conselation I also fold here, but Im not too experianced tournament- wise. I dont think your fold is bad.

**JDizzzle72** · 08-01-2009 02:46 PM

The play in the 10+1s can be pretty horrendous. I'd shove it here because it's perfectly likely that villain spazzes here with complete air all too often. 22-99 nails his range also. 66 and 33 don't get played this way too often imo. You play really well against his range, without any additional information. It's early still, and if you double up here you're in great shape. If you lose, you just fire up a new one