Interesting Spot Not sure what to do

[niner1984]

Last night i was playing in a small home game and this hand came up and i am not sure what is the play..

We were down to to 6 people and the blinds were 150-300 every one folds until the button limps in. the small blind completes and i look down at so i decide to check.

stacks button 11k small blind 6k myself 5k

the flop comes

small blind checks i feel my hand is big so i decide to bet 600 button raises me to 1600 total my read is he does not have much which is his read on me. The small blind tanks and moves in for 5700 hundred . I have 4100 hundred back what is your play here call or fold?

[cdavi]

Quick math and answer would be that you have at maximum 12 outs which is just under a flip vs 1 opponent. You have to call 4100 to win 11600 so that is the best case scenario (assuming you don't put him on a total airball bluff or 97 not clubs). At worst you have 3 outs (if they have a8 clubs) which is 12% to win and you need the best odds available to call. So, you have to decide what type of hands he would check shove a bet and raise two. I'd guess 2 pair, a set, 97 clubs maybe, a8 clubs, 57 clubs, 87 clubs (maybe) and not much less I don't think with no reads. I may be putting the range way too tight there, but I think vs he check shove I'm not far off so I fold in this situation.

What I'd prefer to do though is check raise or check call to control the size of the pot or find a good situation where I could check shove with some fold equity.

Played out I fold, next time I check and probably have to fold as well...

[DevilFish73]

Small Blind has open ended draw or bottom two pair. In a home game I shove here.. The button probably has nothing strong but might be priced in after you shove, which I prefer..

[pegboy1]

At best your a flip. No over cards to pair. your flush draw is small, and youre str8 is small. Even though you got outs im betting if you hit you might be beat anyhow. I FOLD> If i got a bigger flush draw and the bigger side of the str8 I might call. But not here.

[LAPPIN]

I call begrudgingly... you are getting a sick price with loads of outs but it's not how you would have liked to get your money in (ie calling!)... if the SB has:

bottom 2 pair = you are 43%
top and bottom pair/top and middle pair = you are 40%
set = you are 34%
one pair = you are 47%
flush draw with 2 overs = you are 31%
flush draw with an 8 = you are 17%
open-ended with flush-draw = you are 18%
gut-shot and flush-draw = you are 28%

the pot to you is 7200 and to make the call, you need to put in 4100.

Your pot odds are 36.3% and versus this range, I think you can justify a call.

the only two horrible scenarios are the flush draw with an 8 and the open-ended straight and flush draw (97 of clubs) - versus the rest of the range, you're getting a reasonable to excellent price.

There is also the possibility that the button will also make the call. In this situation, you might be getting an even better price and there are some perfect storm scenarios. In that spot you need just 4100 to win total pot of 15K or 27.3%.

If they both have sets, you are 37% (even better than if one of them does because they have each other's boat-cards)

If the button has an overpair and the SB has bottom two, you are 43%

On the other hand, you could be up against two pair and a flush-draw with overs where you are just 16%.

I make the call... but it is close so I understand the fold.

[Chipless Wonder]

It seems safe to assume that one or both of our opponents has clubs, so we most likely need a straight or straight flush to win. I would only count that as four outs, so this is an easy fold for me.

[LAPPIN]

how is that safe to assume?

the Button could easily have a PP (possibly a slow-played over-pair) or air but representing an overpair.

Given the action before him, I'd be surprised if the SB would 3bet with a perceived no-fold equity without a made hand or uber-draw (in other words, I think he might fold a flush draw with 2 overs hand). On balance, I think a made hand is at least as likely as a draw, if not more so.

[Chipless Wonder]

Different players play hands differently. In my opinion, George's flush draw outs shouldn't count, except for the one out that gives him a straight flush. You have a different opinion, which is perfectly fine.

[pegboy1]

I gotta say I'm with chipless on this one.

[Goldnutz69]

I definitely lay this down here. The main reason being that I cant be sure if my flush outs are good. My choice here can be different though depending on the size of the field. For instance in a large field I'm going to need to gain way more chips throughout the course of the tourney, so i can use my stack as a weapon at the bubble. Therefore I'm a lot more likely to call in this spot in a large field.Like Lappin said there is a chance I could possibly win a 17k pot, and thats pretty huge for me if it will make me the big stack at my table. In a smaller field like this tourney, which was a single table, I fold most of the time. Simply because I'll still have 4100 which is still plenty to play with. I'm not really looking to get the chips in behind in a single table tourney, unless I absolutely have no choice.If the game stays 7 or 8 handed for 8 levels or more everyone left will only have 10bb's anyway. Which is what will happened in the majority of small tournaments. In that case I can let my stack get way smaller than I could in a large field, and still have a pretty good chance to win. If we get to 500/1000 and I have 5000 chips,and the chip leader only has 12k, my stack is still big enough to bring a lot of pressure when I push against almost everyone.