Final table strategy considering game and league payouts...

[charlton49]

At first, I really feel like I made the right play here. However, I've been dwelling over this since Saturday night, so I need to know if I made the right play and just being results oriented, or if I should have made a different play.

Background:

This was a league event, and at the time, I was sitting 8th in point, with only this game and the following to go. I wasn't too far from the top 3, where big money could be made for just a high finish in the league.


Final table is 8 handed (of 40) and I was among the top 3, but am now
around 5-6. Avg stack is literally 9bb, with a couple in the 4bb range.
I've got low stacks that keep pushing or raising into me and have found
myself at 7bb after calling a 4bb allin w a3o in the big and losing.


Anyway, I'm sb now, and the same guy that won the AI vs me (a TA player), picked up another pot in the previous hand and now has me covered by 2bb. It folds to him and he pops x3. I look down at KQo. My first instinct is to push, hell,
I'm only sitting at 7bb and am blinding away. But, I remember how stacks
are and get counts from everyone else. The woman to my left has ~12bb,
and again the rest are ~9bb with two below 4bb. I realize that I'm still
very much alive.

Calling 2.5 another would leave me with 4bb, short, but not much shorter than the rest of the crowd. I think for a while longer, come to my senses and pass.

So here are my two questions...

Is my fold +EV for the tournament?
For the league?


ps, i'm in AR right now, so get some good discussion going here and I hope to check back by Weds!

[otbdave]

With average stack at 9BB, I like to find a better hand to push in to a raiser with than King high.

First, I cannot even dream that your opponent will consider folding to you, so you probably know this. KQ is not going to end up dominating any hand your opponent could possibly have. (Maybe if you ended up ridiculously lucky KJ or QJ but most of the time this is not happening)

So basically if you push you are flipping for your stack, a good position in the tournament, and your league position. Without the league points I would consider pushing, but with your league situation it is an autofold. If I looked down at KQ to no raise I would push, but I am not gonna push my chips in against a raiser with K high.

I want to try to put someone else to a decision.

[D-Nut]

I would have folded too.

For me.....at this stage of the game, I've got to be the first to enter a pot, unless I have a damn good reason to think my hand is good. (Hell, I follow that rule so much that I folded 8's in 2nd position to an UTG raise with literally 3 BB's the night before in Dublin League.....I know that sounds beyond ridiculous, but I dont care what that player said, he has never raised with less than 10's UTG in his life, so I knew if I called off my stack, I'd just be mad at myself....but I digress)

I can't think of a reason to expect anyone to fold if you push.....so you have to know that you have zero fold equity. The only question is whether or not your KQ is racing or dominated....not a good position to be in.

On top of that, there are no antes in that game, so 7BB isn't as bad as it sounds, especially if the tourney was slow, and now the blinds have caught up to everyone.

Been there done that though.....regretting a move that I thought maybe I should have pulled the trigger on, even though you know deep down it was the right move, and can't help but be a little results oriented...... Let me guess......you ended up shoving your stack in shortly after with A-x and got called by a better ace or a middle pocket pair, and lost.

[charlton49]

Thanks guys, just needed a little reassurance on this one.

And, yeah, I went in with a low pp and lost a coin flip. No biggie, but that was the chain of events that had me thinking...

[SparX]

average stack at the final table is 9BB? this structure sounds terrible...

KQ is definitely a fold here though. I would much rather go in with 67o than KQ because a large majority of the hands which call you have you as a 30/70 dog (AK, AQ).

whenever you are in the red zone (< 10BB) you should be getting it in on every hand you play. this means you either need to have lots of FE (be first in) or raise AI with a hand which figures to be ahead of other player's range.

when you are this low (you shouldn't be), especially when everyone else is low too, your goal should be to put pressure on other players and your actual cards are almost meaningless.

[charlton49]

average stack at the final table is 9BB? this structure sounds terrible...

KQ is definitely a fold here though. I would much rather go in with 67o than KQ because a large majority of the hands which call you have you as a 30/70 dog (AK, AQ).

whenever you are in the red zone (< 10BB) you should be getting it in on every hand you play. this means you either need to have lots of FE (be first in) or raise AI with a hand which figures to be ahead of other player's range.

when you are this low (you shouldn't be), especially when everyone else is low too, your goal should be to put pressure on other players and your actual cards are almost meaningless.

Yeah, sometimes I get into the results-oriented mindset. Thanks for the comments.

Btw, the game is usually a pretty good one. The other two times I made the final table, ~ stack was arouund 20bb. I think that everyone had just tightened up based on trying to advance up in league pay.

[JTDiggity]

average stack at the final table is 9BB? this structure sounds terrible...

Ok, I feel the need to defend the structure of my game, even though Charlton already did. We start with 45 min blinds for 3 blinds sets and then 30 min blind sets throughout, and the blinds only double once, from level 1 to level 2, so the game is pretty slow. This is one of those cases (they happen every now and then), where the table tightens up and All-ins either don't get called or don't get busted. We were pushing chips around for a while. So...The Delaware Poker League gets compliments about being one of the best games in the area, so I just feel the need to defend it when one situation is judged. I just don't want others on here to be deterred from coming to our game. We contstantly try and make this game better and always appreciate suggestions, since a lot of you play at the game. Anyway, that's all. It was the right move by Charlton and he just lost when he needed to win a race.

[SNutizzle]

We start with 45 min blinds for 3 blinds sets and then 30 min blind sets throughout, and the blinds only double once, from level 1 to level 2, so the game is pretty slow.

So...The Delaware Poker League gets compliments about being one of the best games in the area, so I just feel the need to defend it when one situation is judged. I just don't want others on here to be deterred from coming to our game.

No need to defend JT. Your game is great. It was a situational thing, and it happens once in awhile based on how long it ends up taking to narrow the field to the final table. Anyway, props to the DPL

[SparX]

makes sense... didn't mean to offend.

[JTDiggity]

Sparx, no problem at all, I didn't take personal offense. It does look terrible if that was a consistent occurence, I just wanted anyone who was thinking of coming to the game in the future know that this was not indicative of the normal game.

On that note, we are close to completing our 3rd season. Our 4th season will be starting in September following our Tournament of Champions in August. If anyone would like to be added to the Delaware Poker League mailing list, let me know at [email protected]