Final Table play from WSOP ticket race

[bigsis]

Ok, please bear with me as this is my first hand post

I started playing in the WSOP round 2 ticket race on Full Tilt last night.
I was playing pretty well and and made some key moves and pushes to make my way to the final table from a field of 256.

1am, after 2nd break, Down to 6 handed, blinds are $1k/2k and I am sitting with approx 44k chips, and have the 2nd smallest stack, but within decent proximity to about 1/2 the table.

I have in the SB and it folds around. I limp call to see the flop, BB checks. BB has approx 65k chips

Flop comes . I check, BB checks,
Turn is . Check, Check
River I bet $2k as if I'm just trying to take a stab at the pot.
BB re-raises to $10k, I re-raise to $20k, BB pushes all in.
I call only to be beat by

I'm sure I could have played this differently or should have been able to get away from this, but I saw this as my opportunity to double up and have a shot at qualifying for the next round. I should also note that my read on BB is that he will call down just about anything. He earlier called me all the way down with AJo against my A10d against a board of 6, 10, 7, Q and I was betting pretty heavily. He hit his A on the river.

Feedback please!

[otbdave]

As soon as he reraises you on the river you HAVE to just call. That is the only mistake you made, but it was a huge one.

Many players make these big mistakes on the river because they are paying attention to how big their hand seems and not putting their opponent on a hand. The problem is, once he raises you, what do you think he has? Even if he has shown that he calls down before, this is different. He easily could have flopped a boat (66, Q6), turned a boat (KQ), rivered a boat (77, Q7) or flopped trips. If he didnt at least flop trips, than this river raise would be a COMPLETE bluff.

Now, here is where the decision becomes absolutely one sided. If he either flopped trips or better or he is bluffing you have absolutely no reason to 4 bet the river. If he is bluffing, he wont call off any more chips, so just call and win. If he is not bluffing, you are losing. I mean obviously he cannot have AA here, so there is no hand that is going to pay off your raise. (You might have noticed your kicker doesn't play so he cant have "worse" trips)

Once he pushes, you have put yourself in an tough decision. I probably still fold but really you should not be needing to make that decision at all.

Sorry if this sounds harsh but this is extremely important to avoiding big mistakes. The best way to play is that you should NEVER re-re-raise (4bet) a river bet unless you have the ABSOLUTE nuts, which your hand was far from.

A good saying I read in a book recently is "Never open the action back up to your opponent if his reraising you is going to make you puke". You had to be scared when he launched the chips.

All that being said, it is awesome you made it that far in the tournament, it would have been awesome if you could have saved those 34,000 chips, the blinds were TINY compared to the stack sizes.

P.S. His play to push all in after you make it 20,000 is absolutely terrible play as well, for a lot of the same reasons as above.

[stackinsideways]

I think dave hit the nail on the head with his post...

you got unlucky to even be put in this spot against a calling station...but you also got a little too greedy on the river...

his raise was already 1/4th yer starting stack so yer making a nice pot with a flat call...

and I only see him calling yer all-in if hes ahead...

but going to the rail with a set of Qs 6 handed is nothing to be ashamed of...

keep up the good work

[wreaks]

I was going to write everything that Dave said earlier today but got busy at work (and also just didn't want to type that much). :P He has no reason to bluff at this pot, there's very little money invested, so you have to give him credit for at least the Q, even if it's a bad one like yours and you're chopping, and just call his reraise.

Live and learn. Good result for you, you'll do it again!

[D-Nut]

Solid info Dave.

I would never claim to be a great player and I wouldnt consider myself even a good player on MANY stages, but I can honestly say that I see more river mistakes than any other part of the game. No mistake is magnified more than a screwup on the river.

I think it is the most important lesson to learn in NLH......to always ask yourself what you are trying to achieve with your river bet. Well.....you should always ask yourself what you are trying to achieve with ANY move you make at the poker table...everything you do should have an intended effect. Whether it is to extract money, to make your opponant think something about you or your hand, to enhance your read....whatever your purpose is doesnt matter, but you better have one!!!

I always hate myself when I get ahead of myself and bet the river when I am almost sure I have the best hand, but get raised and now I have put myself to an unneccesary decision. Sometimes, you have to ask yourself before you put your money out there...."What kind of hand is going to call me here?" If your answer is "only a hand that beats me"...then you might want to be in check-call mode if you think you have the best of it. It will make your life a much easier one on the end, where all the chips are handed out.

This is a good topic!

[D-Nut]

But on the "Bright" side (OK....pun intended)

Brandi, your game has gotten VERY solid over these last few months and you should be very proud of that!! You werent getting the results at first, but I think they are starting to catch up.

Dont be a stranger in the hand plays forum......I think we'd all like to hear some of your strategy

[wreaks]

Agreed Dave.

There are only 2 hands to EVER bet on the river: the nuts (or close enough to it), or a bluff. Unless you have a very solid read on your opponent and you know he has 3rd pair and he'll call a value bet to your top pair, betting the river with marginal hands is just not a good play, because you're only going to get called by hands that beat you.

[Chipless Wonder]

Nice post Brandi.

And great responses too.

[otbdave]

Agreed Dave.

There are only 2 hands to EVER bet on the river: the nuts (or close enough to it), or a bluff. Unless you have a very solid read on your opponent and you know he has 3rd pair and he'll call a value bet to your top pair, betting the river with marginal hands is just not a good play, because you're only going to get called by hands that beat you.

At this level of a play (A super satellite), I would not fault leading out on the river. There is very good reason for Brandi to believe her hand is good here, and a lot of poor players here will call with a wide range of hands simply thinking she is stealing. (Her reads earlier when he called a flop bet with overcards).

Even once he raises Brandi I think you have to call, the hand is just too strong, and NOW he could just be bluffing trying to steal the pot. There is argument for folding here in a high skill cash game or tournament, but it is tough in this field, in my opinion. Now you just call and hope you win.

I think you are losing EV by check calling the river here, simply because of tournament, but once again, just my $0.02.

[SNutizzle]

I always hate myself when I get ahead of myself and bet the river when I am almost sure I have the best hand, but get raised and now I have put myself to an unneccesary decision.
This is a good topic!

That was a lot of "myselfs" and perhaps the longest run-on sentence I've ever read