45man - weird turn bet

**Knownfactor** · 04-26-2010 02:18 PM

Villain is semi lose agro, this is a horrible board to bluff at and i don't see him double/triple barrel bluffing here, so what do you make of this turn bet, it just seemed really really odd to me...and what do you do now?

Full Tilt Poker Game #20375450991: $10 + $1 Sit & Go (156543659), Table 5 - 80/160 - No Limit Hold'em - 14:03:16 ET - 2010/04/26
Seat 1: Arkwings33 (2,070)
Seat 2: julitron69 (6,190)
Seat 3: Gjeddemor (3,440)
Seat 4: Festina_Lente01 (945)
Seat 5: PaoloMartino (2,330)
Seat 7: KNOWNFACTOR (5,230)
Seat 8: HIS MOM (7,355)
HIS MOM posts the small blind of 80
Arkwings33 posts the big blind of 160
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to KNOWNFACTOR [8h 8c]
julitron69 raises to 320
Gjeddemor folds
Festina_Lente01 folds
PaoloMartino folds
KNOWNFACTOR calls 320
HIS MOM folds
Arkwings33 calls 160
*** FLOP *** [5d 2s 5h]
Arkwings33 checks
julitron69 bets 480
KNOWNFACTOR calls 480
Arkwings33 folds
*** TURN *** [5d 2s 5h] [6d]
julitron69 bets 800
KNOWNFACTOR has 15 seconds left to act
KNOWNFACTOR has requested TIME

**dyehard** · 04-26-2010 03:06 PM

What are you waiting for? You could not have asked for a better flop barring an 8. I think you should have raised his flop bet to about 1200.

Chances are the turn is going to be an over card and then what? If he bets the turn you have to fold. Any under card is going to put a straight draw on the board as well.

Having played it out, I would jam his turn bet and hope he doesn't have 66 or an unlikely 34. If he has a big hand like JJ-AA, you may have been able to get away cheap if he 3 bets your raise on the flop (had you raised on the flop.)

**dyehard** · 04-26-2010 03:08 PM

BTW, I dont think 3 barreling that board is so weird. Especially if he has overs and senses you missed or are on a draw.

**z06fanatic** · 04-26-2010 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by dyehard

What are you waiting for? You could not have asked for a better flop barring an 8. I think you should have raised his flop bet to about 1200.

Chances are the turn is going to be an over card and then what? If he bets the turn you have to fold. Any under card is going to put a straight draw on the board as well.

Having played it out, I would jam his turn bet and hope he doesn't have 66 or an unlikely 34. If he has a big hand like JJ-AA, you may have been able to get away cheap if he 3 bets your raise on the flop (had you raised on the flop.)

raise/fold to his flop bet? I mean youre essetially turning your hand into a bluff - you only get called by better - I doubt Ax is going to be flatting or shoving over the top....I think without reads you gotta fold the turn - barreling the turn here is pretty terrible on this board - granted this is a 10 dollar tournament and hes betting 800 in 2k on the turn, but I still dont see shoving the turn........any pairs smaller then yours either setted up or would be checking the turn - the best you can hope for is like AJdd or something along those lines as the bottom of his range....TT would be alot closer

**z06fanatic** · 04-26-2010 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by dyehard

BTW, I dont think 3 barreling that board is so weird. Especially if he has overs and senses you missed or are on a draw.

I think it is....what draw could the flatter have? barreling this board trying to get a pair to fold out is suicide

**dyehard** · 04-26-2010 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by z06fanatic

raise/fold to his flop bet? I mean youre essetially turning your hand into a bluff - you only get called by better - I doubt Ax is going to be flatting or shoving over the top....I think without reads you gotta fold the turn - barreling the turn here is pretty terrible on this board - granted this is a 10 dollar tournament and hes betting 800 in 2k on the turn, but I still dont see shoving the turn........any pairs smaller then yours either setted up or would be checking the turn - the best you can hope for is like AJdd or something along those lines as the bottom of his range....TT would be alot closer

For some reason, I can't figure out what you are trying to say. I didn't get any sleep last night so maybe it's just me. I've read your post 6 times and am confused.

raise/fold to his flop bet? I mean youre essetially turning your hand into a bluff -you get no info by flatting. Getting 3 bet in this level BI is a very strong statement. Fold and you still have ~22BB...plenty of chips to TID.

I think without reads you gotta fold the turn - barreling the turn here is pretty terrible on this board - granted this is a 10 dollar tournament and hes betting 800 in 2k on the turn, but I still dont see shoving the turn -he did have a read :loose aggro. Again, I would have tried to take the pot on the flop. As played, he has to fold or raise or preferrably shove. If he has overs or a flush draw, you have to make him pay to see the river.

any pairs smaller then yours either setted up or would be checking the turn - the best you can hope for is like AJdd or something along those lines as the bottom of his range....TT would be alot closer -It's not unreasonable for him to check oop if he hit his set. In fact, I would expect it. If he was as loose as OP said he was then no way is his range as tight as TT or even AJs. "Loose" is up for interpretation so 9Ts could def be in his range.

Now that I broke up your post into sections, I can better understand what you were trying to say.

**dyehard** · 04-26-2010 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by z06fanatic

I think it is....what draw could the flatter have? barreling this board trying to get a pair to fold out is suicide

By "flatter" I assume you mean the hero. In that case, if I am the villian, I could put the hero on a diamond draw or possibly (although unlikely) a straight draw with a hand like A3s or A4s. Therfore, if I were the villian with let's say QJ, I could very well bet the flop and turn.

**z06fanatic** · 04-26-2010 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by dyehard

By "flatter" I assume you mean the hero. In that case, if I am the villian, I could put the hero on a diamond draw or possibly (although unlikely) a straight draw with a hand like A3s or A4s. Therfore, if I were the villian with let's say QJ, I could very well bet the flop and turn.

diamond draw? there was none on the flop....calling a gutshot on the flop? this is really bad for the villan to barrel this board.

**dyehard** · 04-26-2010 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by Knownfactor

Villain is semi lose agro, this is a horrible board to bluff at and i don't see him double/triple barrel bluffing here, so what do you make of this turn bet, it just seemed really really odd to me...and what do you do now?

If he is loose aggro, then why is it hard to believe he would double barrel bluff? His first bet is obv a c bet. His turn bet doesn't have to be a double barrel bluff. It could be a double barrel c bet.

I think we can argue all day long about the correct play on the turn. However, I think your biggest mistake was on the flop.

Just curious, what was your plan from the time you called his raise pf? Was it to set mine?

When you missed the set and he c bet, how did that affect your plan? What was your new plan now that you called his flop bet? It looks like you were hoping to hit a 2 outer or for him to check the turn.

**z06fanatic** · 04-26-2010 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by dyehard

If he is loose aggro, then why is it hard to believe he would double barrel bluff? His first bet is obv a c bet. His turn bet doesn't have to be a double barrel bluff. It could be a double barrel c bet.

I think we can argue all day long about the correct play on the turn. However, I think your biggest mistake was on the flop.

Just curious, what was your plan from the time you called his raise pf? Was it to set mine?

When you missed the set and he c bet, how did that affect your plan? What was your new plan now that you called his flop bet? It looks like you were hoping to hit a 2 outer or for him to check the turn.

lol what is a double barrel cbet? never heard that one