Tangling with the chip leader

[Chipless Wonder]

Problem #1 - pocket queens against the only opponent who can bust me

Last night I was doing well in a 45-person online game. Six spots paid and we were on the bubble with seven remaining. I was in second place so only one opponent could knock me out. There was one player who was sitting out with less than one big blind left, so we were only a minute or two from the money...

UTG was the chip leader and he raised. I was in the big blind with pocket queens, and pushed all-in. I figured he couldn't call me with anything except A-A, K-K or A-K, and he had been raising a ton of hands on the bubble.

He let his time run down, and eventually called me with A-10 offsuit.

Should I have just folded my queens pre-flop given that there's no good reason to play a pot with the only guy who can knock me out here?

Should I have just called, and then check-folded when the ace flopped?

Was I too aggressive here?

Was his all-in call as terrible as it seems to me?

[DevilFish73]

You play to win... I like the aggressive play... I don't however like his call.. So what happened???? Assuming that your indication of an ace flopping was in theory...

[Chipless Wonder]

An ace flopped, someone typed 'nice call', and the guy who was sitting out with less than one big blind made the cash.

[DevilFish73]

ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[wreaks]

You played it right Scott, this was an absolutely terrible call. To be safe you COULD have just called PF and pushed on the flop if no A or K flopped, but that's just another way to play it.

This terrible call is typical of online play. IMO, no one would make that call in a live tourney, unless they just had no idea how to play poker.

[D-Nut]

Yea....this is why I struggle online......

Online is a preflop game....and preflop poker is my weakness. I excel more in postflop poker, and when you get deep in anything MTT, you can throw that out the window.

Everything is viewed as a resteal, or a steal or a re-resteal, or whatever.

Or maybe I'm overreacting....was this guy a winning player? That may be a silly question given the play at hand....

I just wonder if this hand ends the same way if you throw a smallish re-raise in there. Sometimes these guys interpret a smallish reraise as a real hand, and an all out shove as weak. He may have really thought that he was at worst racing....as dumb as that sounds. And I'm not justifying his play IN THE LEAST....but sometimes to defeat a donkey, you have to learn how to think like one.

Obviously you are not throwing your chips around against the only guy who can bust you....but sometimes you just simply cant beat lucky....

[stackinsideways]

when I read the Title of this thread....

I never imagined you having QQ...

theres nothing different you could do here...

donkey nuts just made a terrible call and got rewarded...

you should have won this hand and prolly the whole tourny...

[bursell]

As weird as it sounds, it might be correct to fold QQ here. You would need an ICM calculator to know for sure. The fact that one of the players has only one BB is a big factor. Even if you double up, a lot of the $ equity gained goes to the shorter stacks.

Still, it was a horrifically awful call by the big stack.

[ohpokergal]

As weird as it sounds, it might be correct to fold QQ here. You would need an ICM calculator to know for sure. The fact that one of the players has only one BB is a big factor. Even if you double up, a lot of the $ equity gained goes to the shorter stacks.

I think that you have to figure out what your ultimate goal is here.

If you're interested in "just making it to cash", then calling with your QQs would be appropriate. It will allow you to get away from it with little damage to your stack, when the scare card comes.

Pushing all in pre-flop is an aggressive move to WIN the tourney... not just cash. I don't think you can argue with your motives or move, if the goal is to propel you to the top of the heap.

However, I do agree with the thought that you should consider who had raised, and the stack size of the other players. This was the one player that could truly damage you, and pushing all in.... and to your earlier point, you're right, he should only call with AA, KK, QQ, AKs. Which I translate to, you only get called by a better hand.

The big All-in Overbet signals medium to high pair with a lot of players. He probably put you on 99s or less, and figured it was a race.

Either way.... Why race at all this close to the money and when your stack is the dominant one?

He shouldn't have called your All in, but I can understand why he might have. He thinks it's a race and has an opportunity to eliminate one of his strongest competitors.

You KNOW how I feel about those damn QQs anyway.... Can't when with 'em and can't win agin 'em!

[PotsNpains]

My condolences for your loss, and it was a loss…that is something you had and lost. In golf some professionals can drive a ball over ¼ of a mile, but that’s not what wins golf tournaments. Winning comes from superior chipping and putting around the green. You can recover from a poorly hit drive either short or in the rough with one decent shot back onto the fairway or green. But if you’re within 6 feet of the hole and you miss that putt that is a stroke lost forever. You drive for show but putt for dough!

Poker tournaments are won in a similar fashion. While it may be correct to push all-in with QQ after a raiser enters the pot, in the middle of the tournament, when you’re short stacked. But it is folly to use that same play against the big stack, on the bubble, especially when you have enough chips to guarantee getting into the money. At the bubble the value of your hand becomes secondary to other factors that can get you through the bubble.

At the bubble with a large or semi-large stack, I consider this; if I do nothing from here on, how much money will I earn? I keep that number in my head while I consider playing any hand, because that is what you are risking. With QQ any Ace is a 30% dog; AK is 50%, AA and KK are 80% favorites. You wrote that you thought he wouldn’t call you without AA, KK or AK. So, basically you’re thinking the only way you’ll end up in a showdown is if he can beat you badly! Then it makes no sense to push all-in.

I think you should have just called. If there were no Ace or King on the flop then consider betting enough to discourage a call. Folding preflop was the other sensible option. That way you could guarantee getting paid. Pushing all-in is a tool that is over-used especially in online low limit Sit&Go tournaments. While folding may seem like you’re wimping-out, folding well is like putting well. When you don’t fold when you should and you get knocked out, that’s a payday gone forever.