Fulltilt owners pocketed $500million...

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Originally Posted by 5thmardiv

Full Tilt knew that at any given time, they would not be able to pay out all the funds and continued to rob the payers accounts pretending and acting like it was safe. Regardless what role the government had in stopping this criminal practice, they knew. There is a big difference in mismanagement and out right deception. Bottom line, the owners need to be held accountable for all the funds not paid out and the government needs to release the rest of the assets to a 3rd party so that we can get our funds back. Otherwise, I would like to offer a bounty on the heads of FT!!!

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Which government body are you expecting to hold Full Tilt accountable? The U.S. Government? Why would they care about reimbursing players who were engaged in what the government deems to be an illegal activity.

Someone pointed out that a major difference between banks and Full Tilt is that customers' deposits at a bank are insured against loss in case of company failure. Exactly. There is no guarantee of the safety of players' funds and no FDIC or anything of the sort. Besides, when as has the government ever distributed to people the seized funds of an illegal activity? Has that ever happened? Obviously I think the government SHOULD return funds, but why would the government return funds if it can just keep the funds for itself? What makes you think the government cares if people got burned playing online poker? Are you under some delusion that the government cares about online poker players? Do you think government officials sit around worrying about the "online poker player" demographic?

Also, it might be a bad idea to "put a bounty" on the heads of FT's owners. I was under the impression such activity is frowned upon.

The US government has actually supplied a form that you can file your losses with, in the event they are able to re-coop any funds from the scam artist. FT was never operating properly after the first year in business and it appears more information on just how broke they really were (how is a company making that much money broke....they were using it as their own piggy bank). I think once the actual financial data is available, more and more people will see that it never was a legit company, but was really ran "like" a scheme in which new money paid out any new withdraw request as the "bank" was always empty or running at such a low level that they could never pay out more then half of the accounts in any event.

I still find it funny how anyone is still trying to defend or compare this piece of shit company to any bank....over 400 US banks went belly up and most people received their funds back outside of investments or anything over the FDIC insured amount. Bottom line.....FULL TILT knew that they were ripping off people and knew that one day it would come down to being outed.....or they would never have paid themselves in that manner. I hope the HELL that the owners get what they deserve......legal or not. Bring back the old fashion Vegas mob mentality and it will most likely not happen again!!!!

I don't know that people are defending what Full Tilt did; rather, some people (myself included) are just trying to place things in the proper context and proper perspective. Also, my main purpose here has been to make sure the government receives its fair shame of the blame.

I compared Full Tilt to a bank only in the sense that if Full Tilt was operating with a fractional reserve system, it would be similar to the fractional reserve system of a bank, which IN THEORY works. You are saying that Full Tilt "could never pay out more then [sic] half of the accounts in any event." So what? No bank in existence can pay out half its accounts either. No bank (or poker site) ever would have to if the government didn't interfere. The statistical probability of more than half of a large company's customers suddenly requesting withdrawals is almost zero. That fact is the underlying foundation for a fractional reserve system, a system that has been shown to be economically sound.

I am interested in learning more about this form you speak of. How do we prove to the U.S. Government how much money we had on Full Tilt?

Also, though I don't agree with Full Tilt's decision to continue to pay its top personnel millions of dollars while the company struggled, how does that differ from what most or all companies do? Banks and auto companies still continue paying their CEOs and top personnel millions even when the company is struggling, right? They don't say to the CEO, "Sorry, you can't get your 27 million dollar paycheck this year." No, they pay the CEO and the stockholders get zilch.

Also, I would like to examine your statement, "over 400 US banks went belly up and most people received their funds back outside of investments or anything over the FDIC insured amount."

Oh, so in other words, some people DID lose a lot of money right? While the CEOs and other top employees got nice fat paychecks, right? Explain why these cases are so different?

Arguing with you is like arguing with my 5 year old. You are trying to compare a website to a bank. So let's break this down: Yes, this website was operating in a very grey area to the point that it was operating illegally knowing that at any giving time it could be shut down. They made claims that your deposit was secure and available. No one deposited money with FT as in investment, but a place to hold funds for their gambling pleasure, illegal or not. The government shut down had nothing....NOTHING to do with the fact that FT could not payout all what was owed to players who thought their funds were there. That would make it not a fractional system....but a scam. If you get PPA, they have the link that you can file (I'm sure taxes will come into play) with the AG who is filing claims on behalf of US players to try and re-coop their funds. All US banks can pay out in case of failure due to the tight restrictions on FDIC insured deposits. They would lose out on on investments and other types of hedge investments, but not only do they have to pay into the insurance, but they also have to have a certain level of capital in cash reserves to function as a bank.

Had FT paid out on the requested amounts to begin with and players actually got their funds....the US might not of stepped in as fst as they did to freeze FT assets, in which that is how they figured out that FT could never fulfill total requested withdraw and knew that if they released those funds, that the majority of people would lose out! So in that case, the Feds actually helped many US player in not allowing the owners to take that and run!

The way that you would prove to the US government as to how much you had on FT would be the deposit, winnings and withdraw confirmations that you were emailed! I still have all mine and am waiting to be able to get my funds(not likely but I have my proof). It would be FT to prove that you either lost it during play or that they already refunded it to you. I'm sure taxes would also be leveled against you as well......1099G.

Yes, banks pay their CEO's crazy money, however as crazy as it seems, their are formulas and boards that they have to get through to get paid that. Not the CEO's using the company bank accounts as their own piggy banks....that is the real difference in what you keep claiming are the same!

Yes, over 400 banks in the US have failed, I can get you the exact number if you would like along with a list. If you used that banks only for a checking account or CD's you probably got 99% of your money back. If you used their investments (which are never insured), then you might have lost them as you would in the stock markets.

So the main difference between FT and real companies......CEO's and employees are paid through accounting. FT used FT's accounts as their own piggy banks knowing that the scam would come to an end and they figured they would get theirs before that end came. Did you EVER think of FT as an investment or a place to make money based on your own skills of gambling? CEO's and employees can;t write checks out of the company checking account to themselves....FT did whatever they wanted and told everyone on their website something totally different!!

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Originally Posted by 5thmardiv

Arguing with you is like arguing with my 5 year old. You are trying to compare a website to a bank. So let's break this down: Yes, this website was operating in a very grey area to the point that it was operating illegally knowing that at any giving time it could be shut down. They made claims that your deposit was secure and available. No one deposited money with FT as in investment, but a place to hold funds for their gambling pleasure, illegal or not. The government shut down had nothing....NOTHING to do with the fact that FT could not payout all what was owed to players who thought their funds were there. That would make it not a fractional system....but a scam. If you get PPA, they have the link that you can file (I'm sure taxes will come into play) with the AG who is filing claims on behalf of US players to try and re-coop their funds. All US banks can pay out in case of failure due to the tight restrictions on FDIC insured deposits. They would lose out on on investments and other types of hedge investments, but not only do they have to pay into the insurance, but they also have to have a certain level of capital in cash reserves to function as a bank.

Had FT paid out on the requested amounts to begin with and players actually got their funds....the US might not of stepped in as fst as they did to freeze FT assets, in which that is how they figured out that FT could never fulfill total requested withdraw and knew that if they released those funds, that the majority of people would lose out! So in that case, the Feds actually helped many US player in not allowing the owners to take that and run!

The way that you would prove to the US government as to how much you had on FT would be the deposit, winnings and withdraw confirmations that you were emailed! I still have all mine and am waiting to be able to get my funds(not likely but I have my proof). It would be FT to prove that you either lost it during play or that they already refunded it to you. I'm sure taxes would also be leveled against you as well......1099G.

Yes, banks pay their CEO's crazy money, however as crazy as it seems, their are formulas and boards that they have to get through to get paid that. Not the CEO's using the company bank accounts as their own piggy banks....that is the real difference in what you keep claiming are the same!

Yes, over 400 banks in the US have failed, I can get you the exact number if you would like along with a list. If you used that banks only for a checking account or CD's you probably got 99% of your money back. If you used their investments (which are never insured), then you might have lost them as you would in the stock markets.

So the main difference between FT and real companies......CEO's and employees are paid through accounting. FT used FT's accounts as their own piggy banks knowing that the scam would come to an end and they figured they would get theirs before that end came. Did you EVER think of FT as an investment or a place to make money based on your own skills of gambling? CEO's and employees can;t write checks out of the company checking account to themselves....FT did whatever they wanted and told everyone on their website something totally different!!

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I don't know what's worse - your reading comprehension skills or your economics knowledge. If arguing with me is like arguing with your 5-year old son, then in all likelihood your 5-year old son is superior to you in both categories, so maybe you should ask him to fill in for you. There is little point in my responding further since you continue to ignore or misstate almost every point I make while simply restating your own meaningless or irrelevant statements.

I have no doubt that the majority of people who know me know just how much knowledge I have in the banking/finance industry. Seeing how I own my own lending brokerage business after being trained by JPMorgan Chase, Wells Fargo, Nat City.....I can tell you no one use the verbiage like you do. Which leads me to believe that you read a report or a blog somewhere and think u know "fractional system" like u invented it. I think I pointed out the big difference between the FT website and any major company in the US....or for that matter the world. CEO's or employees have a set pay each year, probably much like you and work under certain stipulations to continue receiving that pay. FT website did not do that. As much as I do not like the government myself, it was not the Feds that caused FT to rip off the players. It was them and only them who devised the plan to pretty much do whatever they wanted with our funds without our consent. There is no other way to explain it......

Can't wait for the IRS to go after these ass clowns for tax evasion!

Here is a list of the FDIC failed banks, if you count the ones since 2007, it will be around 487.

FDIC: Failed Bank List

Here is the current reported (they do have off sheet accounting for mortgage losses) losses from banks due to bad investments in the CDO, MBS and other investment vehicles.....note that these "banks" have taken losses in the BILLIONS and people who deposited in them still have their money. This does not include the shadow inventory of foreclosed homes or soon to be foreclosed homes on/off their books. When they got rid of mark to market reporting, it allowed them to "cook" their books. An example of this is if you needed to get your home appraised, the appraiser would give it a current valuation. The banks are now allowed to give a future value and use that as current value for reporting purposes. This limits their current losses and pumps up their numbers.

Wells Fargo – $138.6B
Goldman Sachs – $129.0B
Morgan Stanley – $121.0B
SunTrust – $2.0B
JP Morgan Chase & Co. – $221.7B
US Bancorp – $3.0B
Bank of America
Fifth Third Bancorp – $3.6B
Citigroup – $309.7B
UBS – $228.6B

This is also after the Government has increased the amount of reserves that these "banks" must have in cash. In short the major difference in banks and Full Tilt.....the banks are still around and people still have their money even after the run on the banks in 2008.

Latest info...Full Tilt Issues Statement Re: Ponzi Scheme