Bad play blind versus blind

[Chipless Wonder]

See if you can find all the different mistakes I made in this very pivotal hand...

Full Tilt Poker Game #10011710120: $32,000 Guarantee (75899658), Table 170 - 2000/4000 Ante 500 - No Limit Hold'em - 0:27:13 ET - 2009/01/13
Seat 1: Dezign1 (60,924)
Seat 2: ryans song (73,462)
Seat 3: LemayZing (61,523)
Seat 4: clkeehn (157,944)
Seat 5: ClassActt (41,264)
Seat 6: AllTheWay (62,598)
Seat 7: MURPH1101 (109,580)
Seat 9: Chipless Wonder (141,124)
Dezign1 antes 500
ryans song antes 500
LemayZing antes 500
clkeehn antes 500
ClassActt antes 500
AllTheWay antes 500
MURPH1101 antes 500
Chipless Wonder antes 500
Chipless Wonder posts the small blind of 2,000
Dezign1 posts the big blind of 4,000
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Chipless Wonder [8d Kc]
ryans song folds
LemayZing folds
clkeehn folds
ClassActt has 15 seconds left to act
ClassActt calls 4,000
AllTheWay calls 4,000
MURPH1101 folds
Chipless Wonder calls 2,000
Dezign1 checks
*** FLOP *** [8s Js 2h]
Chipless Wonder has 15 seconds left to act
Chipless Wonder bets 12,000
Dezign1 calls 12,000
ClassActt folds
AllTheWay folds
*** TURN *** [8s Js 2h] [Ad]
Chipless Wonder has 15 seconds left to act
Chipless Wonder checks
Dezign1 checks
*** RIVER *** [8s Js 2h Ad] [Ks]
Chipless Wonder checks
Dezign1 bets 44,000
Chipless Wonder has 15 seconds left to act
Chipless Wonder calls 44,000
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Dezign1 shows [Ts 2s] a flush, King high
Chipless Wonder mucks
Dezign1 wins the pot (132,000) with a flush, King high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 132,000 | Rake 0
Board: [8s Js 2h Ad Ks]
Seat 1: Dezign1 (big blind) showed [Ts 2s] and won (132,000) with a flush, King high
Seat 2: ryans song folded before the Flop
Seat 3: LemayZing folded before the Flop
Seat 4: clkeehn folded before the Flop
Seat 5: ClassActt folded on the Flop
Seat 6: AllTheWay folded on the Flop
Seat 7: MURPH1101 (button) folded before the Flop
Seat 9: Chipless Wonder (small blind) mucked [8d Kc] - two pair, Kings and Eights

I had been playing so well all night long - making excellent decisions over and over again. Then all of a sudden this hand came along and I apparently went brain-dead. Sometimes I get really made at myself!

[DefyOddz]

You completed the SB.

I fted a 75$ 6max 2 weeks ago without ever completing the SB once, its a pure donk move unless you are holding low-mid pp and other limpers before you.

This is just my opinion but immediately when i see people completing Sb';s i pull their opr and 99% they are losers.

edit- and your opponent is an idiot for flatting that flop.

[Chipless Wonder]

This is just my opinion but immediately when i see people completing Sb';s i pull their opr and 99% they are losers.

I agree that was my first mistake, and I hardly ever do it. But with 9:1 pot odds, and implied odds to double someone up post-flop, how could I refuse?

[DefyOddz]

I agree that was my first mistake, and I hardly ever do it. But with 9:1 pot odds, and implied odds to double someone up post-flop, how could I refuse?

i take the victor ramdin approach (and hes a beast) i know how to play the game but pot odds dont really make much sense to me. I know when to call with me low pps, i know when to call shorties shoves, and i know when to make those marginal BB call and button calls but, I think this is perfect example when he says pot odds dont exist. But im also on the worst downswing of my life so yea my info is probably pretty bad.

[LAPPIN]

I disagree with the limping in the small blind comment. I limp blind v blind about 90% of the time when both players are 20 BBs deep or more. (perhaps Hellmuth, Negreanu, Ted Forrest and I are in the 1% who do it and aren't donks)

[Chipless Wonder]

No disrespect at all meant there LAPPIN. I don't believe the play is right for me, because I hate playing out of position, and post-flop is not my strength.

I will hardly ever call from small blind with 3:1 or 5:1 odds. I will maybe half the time with 7:1 odds. At 9:1 I start calling a lot more, unless I'm short-stacked.

[Dr Fill Good]

Gotta agree with Lappin here, I feel one of the biggest advantages you can have is solid small blind play. I couldn't imagine giving away my chips like that, Defy you are always invited to be in my SB.

[DefyOddz]

I disagree with the limping in the small blind comment. I limp blind v blind about 90% of the time when both players are 20 BBs deep or more. (perhaps Hellmuth, Negreanu, Ted Forrest and I are in the 1% who do it and aren't donks)

i have seen profitable players do this, but a player like me will recognize it right away and bump it up in the BB 4xs and ur either folding away ur 1bb or ur calling a 4x;s raise oop with no idea whats up. and i will do this with ATC the first time a sb open completes into my BB in a MTT just to set the tone.

in the 500$ million a few weeks ago i had a player to my right who did this on our first encounter like this. so i bumped him with nothing 4x;'s, he folded. 2nd encounter he open completed again, and again i bumped with nothing, he folded. This idiot actually did it a third time and i bumped him again, he folded again and the never completed the sb on me for the next 2 hours.

I agree with move works well against passive weak players ( the majority of the 45/90 man players) because you can instant minbet any flop and usually take it down. but against good players you will get owned long run.

note: i dont do what i stated above in 45 and 90 mans so much because of the shallow stacks.

edit- i will admit that the play lappin suggest is good for farming donks, but when you play real tourneys (live big buyins or online 500$+ you will be punished severly) the Sb is the worst position in the entire table. I guess i just prefer to practice high level poker even when farming the 26s/75s so i dont develop leaks or make mistakes in the ones that count. but your fine to do that in the 45/90s against the weak players.

just one thing to remember if your completing the SB a lot and losing on the flop your giving away double what you need to. When the blinds are only 15/30 you can say 'well its only 15 more chips' But you have to think long term. every time you double up those 15 chips are multiplied many times over, the longer the tourney and the more double ups you see the more those chips are worth in the end. and for high volume players like ourselves these '15 chips' are actually millions of chips longterm = lots of lost $$$$ but i suck. just look at my sharkscope. so i may start this open sbcomplete technique

[Dr Fill Good]

I think the simple response to your play is to limp repop once or twice(as long as we are deepstacked you don't need a monster to do it). Clearly there is an argument for both plays, and I've been known to fold my sb against particularly over aggro opponents... but I could never picture giving up my sb more then I absolutely need to.

[DefyOddz]

Gotta agree with Lappin here, I feel one of the biggest advantages you can have is solid small blind play. I couldn't imagine giving away my chips like that, Defy you are always invited to be in my SB.

SB play may be one of the most difficult to master im still learning a lot my self how to play certain hands the most optimal way possible.